Why do other classes have similar—or even more powerful grenades, yet the Vet has always been the main issue ruining game balance?
The problem has always been the those two traits: Demolition Stockpile and Demolition Team.
They give the Veteran an unlimited supply of grenades, allowing him to slaughter any type of enemy, even bosses, from Uprising to Havoc, turning the gameplay of others into “watching the Veteran throw grenades.”
The perfect solution has been right there all along: just like Arbites’ Lone Wolf, assign different cooldowns to different types of grenades.
Krak—that braindead, gamebreaking grenade, deserves a cooldown of at least 90 seconds; extending it to 120 seconds could even be considered, especially since the Demolition Team still restores a certain number of grenades.
Frag could get some love; a 45 second cooldown, or even shorter, would be an interesting option.
Smoke can be somewhat effective on the (rarely played) Havoc high difficulty, but on other difficulties, they merely block players’ vision and are completely useless against melee enemies. Unless you’re using mods that could easily be classified as cheating, this grenade is the only one that’s even close to being balanced.
These changes should allow players ,other than Veterans, to enjoy a more normal gameplay experience again.
krak number should be limited to only 1-2 cuz most vets rely on kraks too much. dont tell me that smokes can also be “ useful “ in havoc, 90% of vets use kraks only n i dont see many smoke users in havoc
I completely agree. Krak grenades should be limited to just 1 charge, or their damage should be heavily nerfed. A weapon that bugged is way too cheaty in Havoc. With it around, why would anyone ever bring smokes?
Krak, boombringer and other similar stuff should overall be an anti solo target thing. Plus they still shouldn’t destroy bosses, but provide a decent help. Bosses are a joke, clown cars of armored is a bigger joke.
I think they’re a bit ridiculous everywhere, most bosses get spammed to death with explosives before you even get near in auric. I had a chaos spawn the other day I couldn’t even get up to backstab because it got hit with like 4 kraks and 2 boom bringers in 3 seconds. Just sliding away getting chunked until it blew up while I was running up for the stab. The entire boss fight was like 5 seconds long. Most of the times you get face-swarmed with ogryns you’ll somehow see a nearly infinite spam of kraks too from demo team, there’s just negative chance of tension in all lobbies from krak spamming. Having 4 of them is just dumb.
Demo team should have a 12s internal cooldown post-trigger to be able to trigger again to prevent gaining more than 1 grenade on just using 1 grenade on a group of elites
Gold toughness needs to be nerfed as well but, after nerfing both gold toughness and grenade related talents, then megabuff the ranged aspect of vet (I want ballistic weapons to be used a lot more, creating the ideal hybrid for melee/ranged playstyle)
Just like all other balance topics; Balance the game/enemy’s FIRST.
There is zero point in balancing currently, they need to scale down the absolute cluster Redacted enemy spawns. Then scale down player power and apply balance.
If there are significent less elite spawns, talents are directly scaled down by this.
Smoke grenades need a lot of love… or to change them.
We have proposed a lof of things, Fatshark just need to pick what they want. But keeping them without change is not an option.
I would say krak grenade must be nerfed, no brainer. At very least must get minus one base grenades quantity. But I would go as far as additionally nerfing amount of targets it can have its full damage delivered to. So you can kill one or two crushers with a single krak - and if there are more of them clipping one into another, the rest will just get some damage, but are not killed.
And then apply exactly same nerfs to HS’s boom bringer. Also reduce number of chem grenades they carry by 1.
Both krak grenades vet and toxin/chem/rocket HS are two classes I immediately quit match if I see one in them right now, in base game. They are toxic to the game, as bad as purgatus or infinite smiter psyker.
This is the biggest issue here, of course the game is gonna get straight up r’tard’d when you spam elite enemies by the dozens, when MOST of the class talents in this game are triggered off of elite or specialist kills.
Of course these talents get more and more valueable, MORE you spam elite enemies that trigger the said talents. It’s basically an exponential curve.
Also more elite spam there is, higher uptime all of these talents have because the sheer enemy density alone and chaining kills allows you to constantly refresh the duration of the talents and even blessings.
Just them reducing the cÄncerous levels of elite spam would indirectly nerf most talents over night, like Psykinetic’s Aura or Bruiser.
Because now there isn’t like 14 f’cking ragers or shotgunners in every pack, to trigger the talents off from.
To be specific, I personally find Smoke much more useful than Krak unless we’re dealing with the Rotten Armour modifier. Especially when the Psyker is running Shriek instead of Shield, Smoke adds a significant layer of team stability that Kraks just can’t provide.
Interestingly, there’s a clear meta difference here Smoke is highly preferred in Asian servers, whereas in my experience on NA servers, almost no one touches it. It was quite a fresh perspective to see how differently the regions approach the same game.
As for Kraks being ‘broken,’ I don’t think their ability to clear Elites is overtuned enough to warrant a nerf. However, I do agree they trivialize Boss encounters especially when paired with Shout, allowing a Veteran to cycle through huge burst damage and four knockbacks solo.
In a solid balance concept, both would happen at once after devs and playtesters home in on the balance on test builds, so they can release a comprehensive balance overhaul that doesn’t leave enemies NOR weapons underpowered/overpowered afterwards
There is none difficulties in the base game where you would REQUIRE a single krak vet on your team to complete a mission. If you do, then, for real, you need to git gud. I was on a couple teams that were able to complete last event’s missions (with hoards of ogryns) on Auric difficulties without any krak vet or HS present in them.
And if you are speaking about the game from the perspective of Havoc player (like many do, without specifying, despite it’s being a mode that is played by a tiny fraction of DT playerbase) - then fine, for Havoc specifically it can stay like that. In base game both it, and HS’s blitzes are over the top, they completely trivialize and destroy all challenge, remove all interesting content from it - and must be nerfed asap. I leave the mission on spot if I see any of the two present on the team.
I see we’ve come full circle with kraks being too powerful when before they were useless and everyone used shredders. I dunno, I think smokes just need to be more useful. Put out fires, inherent toughness regen inside them, something.
Kraks… I can’t see needing a nerf unless you nerf all the other blitzes and weapon combos that also delete single targets in the game without much investment.
too many tears on this forum to nerf a PVE game. sounds like jealousy. only use one of the grenades then. tired off this nerf crying bs. keep in mind i think there are balance changes on weapons but this forum is drowning in crying for nerfs. soon you will only have a plastic spoon and harsh language to deal with crushers. fix carapace spam instead
It’s specially funny when someone creates a thread that says “hey maybe X needs a buff” and like, 30% of comments are “THIS HAS TO BE RAGE BAIT OMG BUFFS IN MY TIDE GAME!?!?!?!111?”.
And the other 69% are the same as above but trying to sound more reasonable.
Another fun fact, they say here that the reddit is an echochamber, that it sucks, that is “never nerf, always buff” majority, but then you go there, and 8/10 balance threads are nerf favoured, and it’s the same type of “nerf for the sake of nerf” type “argument”. It’s a normie version of this forum at this point.