It should be done.
It also can be made so that there is the other node with the 100% trigger chance but with a higher cooldown.
Well for what youâre asking it should absolutely be a different node to kinetic flayer.
But my question is, with what youâre proposing, a 30 second insta shot from brain rupture, why would you take Empowered psionics? Or what do you have against empowered psionic brain rupture today? Especially if paired with kinetic resonance.
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With all the power creep, BB is barely worth it with exception of few edge cases like chaining EP BB kills on specific classes of elites. I smile every time someone suggests people use BB instead of other options.
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30 second insta shot is a tame effect for 1 point cost.
It isnât comparable to the (proper) use of Psionic Brain Rupture, which is way more value than 1 insta shot every 30 seconds. Again, assuming you use Brain Rupture, instead of just having it ( and not using it via casting it).
Brain rupture casting IS NOT âoverpoweredly high valueâ once per 15 seconds or 30 seconds even if instant or free on higher difficulties. Doubly so if you cannot control it.
The ability to control it even with a larger cooldown would make it BETTER due to other reasons, whilst still being balanced. Namely the fact you can choose to use it when it counts, as opposed to it randomly occurring.
Also: Psionics is not worth it for me since Disrupt Destiny is so much more fun and global to blitz+other weapons. This is my preference, but I imagine a lot of people like Psionic Brain Rupture.
And as mentioned before, I do not use kinetic resonance (currently) because it, again, offers next to no value for its cost. Due to the aforementioned mathematical facts and the lack of reliability.
It would not be op with the given change, it would be more fun and better game design.
Also, there is a false premise in your point: people can choose to not take the Kinetic Flayer as proposed and run Psionics and People could TAKE BOTH the instant cast option AND Psionics. So the point that the fixed Flayer would make the Psionics obsolete is moot, since it would only make Psionics âobsoleteâ to those who do not know how to play with Brain Rupture as a blitz you use by casting it. To not cast it and only use Kinetic Flayer (as it is currently) is not the intended use of Brain Rupture, even with Kinetic Flayer.
I am starting to assume you come from a âI never use Brain Rupture by casting itâ angle. Which I do not, I use Brain Rupture by itself, and I do not run Kinetic Flayer anymore because of its lost utility as the way to maintain Warp Charges, which it had before the class overhaul.
The ability, again, is not a reasonable choice. An enemy which you want to Brain Rupture VIA Kinetic Flayer, even with Autopistol, is better just Brain Ruptured via casting, since you have most likely the same time-to-kill but without the use of Kinetic Flayer you save ammo by not shooting it with the pistol.
In the situation Kinetic Flayer works as is currently, it does not compete against just casting Brain Rupture at the target in most cases. When it does, it is untrustworthy to use and cannot be relied on + has the cooldown which limits prolonged use.
Never was it stated Iâve anything against Empowered Psionic Brain Rupture. This was a fabrication of yours. Furthermore your pathos is mala fide.
I donât think so? Since it can one shot most things on damnation instantly at any range. It would make me question why you would ever even charge the thing and just use weapons until the 30 second cool down is off and trigger it again. Why would I even want empowered psionics and kinetic resonance reducing charge time if I have 0 charge time at all every 30 seconds?
But here we arrive at the crux of the matter. You want Disrupt destiny, which is another key stone. The power of what youâre asking for, in my mind, should be a key stone. You can ask for a better buff to empowered psionic for brain rupture but a 0 charge every 30 seconds to me, belongs as a node in empowered psionics, not in the blitz itself. Otherwise itâs too obvious to take the talent.
I personally have lots of builds. I have used empowered psionics and brain rupture and done BB focused builds. I have done gun psyker with kinetic flayer, even recently.
Personally my favourite build for Psyker is to not even use brain rupture. Honestly I donât use any of my blitzes really. I just use force sword and void strike. But what I personally use is irrelevant.
I think youâre misunderstanding.
From a design perspective, we already have an entire key stone dedicated to reducing charge time and giving more damage to the blitz. What youâre proposing, with itâs current cool down is so accessible that it doesnât really jive with the overall design of the tree holistically. It shouldnât be a blitz node, otherwise why have a key stone that reduces charge time by 50 or kinetic resonance reduce by 75 on ability use? You would have to rework all these components to have the choices be sensible to players.
In MY opinion, if you wanted to do what youâre proposing it would be either:
A: Make empowered psionics have 0 charge time, or very close to 0 with empowered charges. Either base or with another node (that also affects other blitzes)
B: Give ALL blitzes an alternative function via the weapon special key somewhere in the key stone. Maybe all have a 30 second cool down that does something. Or all blitzes have a base special activation that is further made more effective by the empowered psionics key stone. (Brain rupture weapon special does what youâre asking [I would still say reduced charge time, not 0]⌠but also automatically sets your peril to 100% as well or something, and EP removes the peril cost. Or the special activation is an AoE mode).
From a design and balance perspective to have other existing talent nodes be sensible what you want makes the most sense here so as to not trivialize or make worse choices like EP and kinetic resonance.
You want to synergize things as much as possible and reward people for cumulative stacks and effects. You want brain rupture to charge faster? Take kinetic resonance and Empowered psionics and chain brain ruptures with fast cool down on your combat ability to quick fire shoot brain rupture. A single talent node, with no taxes in front of it to largely compete with those other talents and an entire keystone, isnât a good design, and adding a whole other function to a blitz with a new button, but not the others, is just asking to have people who like assail and smite to demand their special button function too. Which I am not against, I just think it makes the most sense to give all psyker blitzes a weapon special in Empowered psionics, which is already the least popular keystone (From what I have seen).
Players are generally min maxxers and hyper optimizers and are going to take the most efficient choices and youâre going to want to ensure as many things stack and synergize with one another and that things are as appealing as possible.
The desire to have a 10 second no charge insta brain rupture just sounds like you want to be OP.
Either way, I doubt the devs will implement what youâre asking for here.
Better targeting and prioritization on Kinetic flayer? Yes, absolutely.
On demand insta shot every 30 seconds invalidating other talent choices heavily? No.
Case in point, killing 1 thing on damnation is not a strong effect. A single attack or 3 quick ones does that on damnation.
B is best choice.
It does not invalidate them. I fail to understand how you think 1 free instant cast per 30 seconds is somehow such an effect that it invalidates psionic brain rupture? How often do you use brain rupture when you use Psionic Brain Rupture anyways?
I could use brain rupture well over 12 times before that 30 s cooldown elapses.
Also: From a design perspective, Empowered Psionics is a keystone that empowers ALL BLITZES. It is not made FOR Brain Rupture. Ergo you may very well not want to take Psionics with Brain Rupture. And again, you may want to DOUBLE DOWN on Brain Rupture, taking the proposed Kinetic Flayer AND Psionics.
Furthermore, there is no call for things to âjive holisticallyâ. Such a perktree is one where you can choose to take nodes and not take nodes. Case in point: Zealot has two sources of melee stun resistance.
It would be irrelevant if it didnât paint your view of things. If you do not use blitzes a lot then Kinetic Flayer as it is a no-brainer for you, since you never use the ability as intended in the first place. It not requiring active use of the blitz seems to be the draw that legitimizes the choice to you, since you seldom use blitzes in the first place. Does not change the fact that the ability is poorly designed.
The power absolutely should not be another keystone. Brain rupture per 30 seconds IS NOT a strong effect.
As said: a single dead elite or specialist per 30 seconds IS NOT strong. And furthermore, due to the quite low damage of brain rupture, it does not even kill dogs by itself, for example.
And it seems you lack imagination of the use cases of Psionics and Kinetic Resonance:
You would want Psionics for the packs of gunners/ragers/maulers/crushers you face against. You would want Kinetic Resonance for the packs of gunners/ragers/maulers/crushers/dogs/mutants/specialists AND monstrosities you face against.
You do not seem to think about this with the full complexity it deserves. Or your experience with not using blitzes often influences this take of yours, that 1 free isntant cast per 30s somehow invalidates Kinetic Resonance and or Psionics.
This is incongruent with:
This issue does not need to consider Keystones at all. The ability and its value ought to be considered on their own merits firstly. On its own merits, taking account to the intended use of the Brain Rupture as a blitz, Kinetic Flayer ought to be changed due to it becoming more interesting to use and requiring player attentiveness, evaluating when an instant cast is needed and when not.
What even is this? Such a poor piece of rhetoric. I do not find much more value in entertaining your responses if you resort to using misrepresentation borderline if not actually fallacious argumentation.
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I dunno man, seems like you set the precedent for a type of tone and a bit of a double standard going on here.
100% disagree. It needs to be considered holistically so as to not be myopic. It needs to be considered in relation to everything else.
Then your issue is with the base ability of brain rupture itself and you should be asking to rework the entire blitz. Not a tax node to make it feasible as you would like it.
Itâs a non-sequitor. Who the person is, in a disagreement, is irrelevant. When it doesnât directly involve them. I DO have blitz heavy builds, as I said, my personal favourite is a build that rarely touches blitzes. Again how to balance blitzes and a talent tree, is not based on the person stating it. If two scientists are debating string theory, or politicians debating tax plans, it is a logical fallacy to invalidate claims strictly about those realms with premises about their personal lives.
Which stack. This is just basic game design.
Yes, you could take both. But they compete with one another is the issue. I donât need the charge time reducing talents when I have 0 charge time. Itâs like magic and sci-fi having narrative competition. They usually donât go well together and thatâs because why would I invent a teleportation machine if we have scrolls and spells that can do that? Sure you could have both, but they narratively compete.
The issue is taking BOTH charge time reduction, and something that gives 0 charge time are abrasive to one another as a design. It isnât a good practice. You want something that synergizes and stacks. Otherwise, theyâre exclusive like blitzes and combat abilities, and some nodes. Picking one, locks out the other. Which is WHY the changes youâre proposing make sense in a key stone.
Or like I said, you just donât like brain rupture itself as a blitz and you want the whole thing to be reworked (which many people have said before, and I am also not opposed to).
Are you even testing this out? It absolutely does.
It takes more than one on maulers, ogyrn enemies, and flak berserkers.
Which I agree it needs a damage buff. With an empowered psionics stack, it probably should be one shotting all non-ogryn enemies, two shotting crushers and bulwarks and reapers (otherwise the point of having charges is worthless).
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what passives/modifiers do you have active
You may read whichever tone you want to text, does not change the fact that those are neutral statements of perception and or fair notifications of not willing to continue if the argumentation is mala fide.
This is not in conflict with considering abilities in a vacuum firstly.
Once the ability has merit to exist on its own right, then one can consider the whole picture, to see how it matches to it. But first order of business is to have each ability be worthwhile.
But I use brain rupture myself itself and there is no call for a whole rework. Your observation of âThen your issueâŚâ is mistaken and it misinterprets what I have written. It will not be a tax node, since Brain Rupture is valuable even without any additional nodes as is.
I never addressed your points on any grounds other than their own. I made an observation as to the seeming origin of your points of view, which I believe cause your arguments to be such that they have inherents issues of logos. I explored to source of the lack of logos, I did not invalidate that which I found to be lacking due to the source being x or y. It is a separate endeavour to figure out the source of lacking logos and to counterargue logos. I did not set aside your claims BECAUSE of their source. I argued against them on their own merits AND then I pondered over the reasonable explanation as to why you came to make those arguments.
There seems to be some misunderstanding as to how this works. if you have 0 charge time for 1 attack per 30 seconds, that does not mean that you do not want charge time reducing talents for all 1+nth attacks after the 1st per 30 secs. The fact that 1 attack per 15 or 30 seconds is instant does not make the casting time reduction for the 7 attacks after that without function.
These stack and synergize. One where you need 1 instantly. the other where you want multiple ones in a quick succession over 10 seconds.
I donât know, I just picked something random that just had base brain rupture. But testing again if I pick nothing but brain rupture, youâre right. It does in fact survive. Maybe warp rider, which I always take.
I would say though, this is an issue with the blitz itself, not a specific talent. I do think itâs damage is underwhelming for the time it takes to use it and your vulnerability while charging it.
Yeah, and I was making my point about baseline power so that explains the confusion.
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Agreed, it was nerfed during the class overhaul, with its damage to enemy health-% was reduced with no compensation.
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No not just the tone. I mean the explicit statement of claiming/accusing someone to argue in bad faith (and dressing it in a sauce of latin lol) is a specific kind of slight. An attempted one. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnât mean itâs in bad faith.
It doesnât need to be sequential. You can just skip straight to the end and look at the big picture and think about what additions or changes would make things interesting from that perspective. In the end it has to exist with the other things in itâs reality. Just because humans generally suffer from epistemic and cogitive shortcomings doesnât mean we always have to succumb to them. Reality and objectivity is inherently holistic.
How can you look at any talent in a vacuum if you put blinders on to things like toughness, health, weapons, talents to get there, blitzes, combat abilities, critical chances and damages, and etc. It would nonsensical to look at in a true vacuum. It must be looked at considering many other factors.
Is it? If itâs not powerful at all to kill a single elite or special even instantly every 30 seconds isnât it an issue and not fine as is? I donât think you can hold both statements to be true. If itâs fine as is, without kinetic flayer or the talent youâre proposing or empowered psionics isnât it inherently not useful?
This is a logical fallacy. Itâs irrelevant on the psychology of the person and how they personally arrived at preferences or opinions. In a debate, ALL that matters is whether the premises link to the conclusions and how strong those premises are. Anything else is irrelevant and/or fallacious.
The issue is the option to have 0 charge time be so readily available is so tempting it begs the question as to whether itâs efficacious or not to take the other options. If I have the option to take the talent âInsta Chargeâ itâs immediately become LESS desirable and efficient to ALSO spend talent points on kinetic resonance and empowered psionics. Yes you can use both. But who would? How many players would we see using all of that together as beneficial. Not many.
Brain blast already costs peril so you canât have that much uptime on it, you have to quell and resort to your other weapons you could quick fire it. Which makes the insta shot more powerful. Not to mention you arenât vulnerable and slowed while charging.
You have to consider whether itâs âefficientâ or not. Not just whether you âcanâ take them together. And whether what youâre offering greatly disincentivizes an ENTIRE key stone. One thatâs already less desirable and we should be making players more incentivized to take it.
Again, I just think what youâre offering needs to be placed elsewhere. But really the whole blitz of brain rupture I think needs to be relooked at for how it functions in auric damnation and what role it really serves. Most people who take Brain Rupture really just do it for kinetic flayer and the odd snipe if youâre using a flame staff. I donât really see many people use it seriously and I think the best solution here it to just make the blitz more effective.
I would rather brain rupture have inherently more damage and/or cast time, and/or a different function for itâs alt fire, then create the talent youâre thinking about, that COULD make it too powerful if it had a lot more damage behind it. Or as others have said, have it do damage as your charging it, maybe exponentially doing more damage the longer itâs held. Maybe a built in AoE on completion.
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When evaluating the character as a whole and generally, then holisticity is the go to.
But in singular cases of bad design ought to be analyzed firstly by themselves, to see why they are bad, and to improve them from their past selves alone.
I see Kinetic Flayer as a bad talent that isnât well implemented, as it gives no control and is poor value, especially now with no Warp Charge functionality. This is why we then focus in on that one talent and go from there, since holistic picture could give us an endless amount of things to implement. We start from what singular purpose kinetic flayer wants to have, then we go from there. Kinetic Flayer is a way to cast brain rupture when wielding weapons. It is as such âinstant castâ and free cost. Then a redesign of this talent is to make it at-will, and potentially making it have a higher cooldown.
This way the ability is made better in a vacuum, since it was bad in a vacuum. Then considering the larger picture, we can go from there. This way we stay at the original point of the ability, since we focused in on it. If we just had a holistic view, we could replace an ability-that-gives-no-predictable-meaningful-value with almost anything else. Zooming into it first allows us to rework it whilst maintaining it.
The main source of disagreement here seems to stem from the difference in use-case of Brain Rupture and how often the ability is used by casting it, and what is the main attraction/use case of Resonance/Psionics:
Again, I myself read Psionics to be an elite deletion combination with Brain Rupture, and Kinetic Resonance as a boss-damage option. I do not read them as âcasting speed increaseâ
The Kinetic Flayer change suggested, in my mind, would be a specialist deletion option. Would not help against the typical situation of having to dispatch 3 specialists swiftly, but it would serve a niche use.
Also, that is only a 1/3rd issue of Empowered Psionics, since Psionics has 3 different effects for the different blitzes.
So people not using Brain Rupture with Psionics is not such a grave loss.
But they are about cast time reduction. I think these also are suited for specialist eliminations.
Ever heard of the bucket debate between Leibniz and Newton about whether you can spin a bucket if all that exists in the universe is a bucket? Turns out Leibniz won that debate but if you have nothing but a bucket it cannot âspinâ. Space is relative. It literally cannot exist, the function of spinning, if thereâs nothing else in relation to it. The universe is a monistic blobject. I digress with metaphyiscs slightly here but no. We are not testing to eliminate variables. We should ask, while looking at the entire talent tree, âWhat would make sense to ADDâ. Then test it. For eliminating variables you can test it on itâs own but to have the inception you should start looking at the whole picture.
How do you feel about crit chance and crit damage?
Agreed. But itâs still ~33% less efficient. And you gotta make every talent count. And you can only choose one blitz and one key stone.
Yes, but I was referring to the function of them, reading what their function is, not what the text says.
They may be cast time reduction, but what ends does that reduction serve was the point.
Yes they are suited, but the fact they are does not counter that my suggested change is best fitting for that use.
This is not about an overhaul, therefore the âwhat makes sense to ADDâ perspective is bad for the purpose of fixing 1 single talent.
The holistic view is important also. As I stated.
Also as said: I do not see the issue of kinetic resonance out competing Psionics or Resonance. They have different purposes. They all may be âcast speedâ in different ways, but they serve different situational purposes.
Depends, plenty of talents/blessing give you control over crits with certainty. Weapon Specialist, Surgical, True Aim.
Also crits have no cooldown and they are a base mechanic.
Also it is important to know I do not read Kinetic Flayer as a âAnother form of critâ due to its cooldown and low chance to occur.
I widely disregard crits if I do not stack crit chance to at least 15%.
Quicker special killing is also what they do, as a function yes? They can be multi purpose. If I am doing shock troopers and want to chain a bunch of brain ruptures, I can do both. Or single target a boss.
It would also be suited for eliminating elites and doing burst boss damage just like the other talents assist with elites and monsters. Is the point.
Well the change youâre suggesting I am saying is inherently a downgrade for how a lot of people use kinetic flayer.
And the purpose of making a new talent to have brain rupture function differently, I am saying is probably best served by reworking the blitz.
They have a percent chance to trigger though that players canât control on demand. I fail to see how Kinetic flayer is any different than a 10% chance to crit except with a cool down and some peril. Itâs just best suited for low damage rapid fire attacks.
I just donât think lacking âcontrolâ over it isnât enough to say itâs not useful or good enough. A lot of people take kinetic flayer if you look at darktide builds, so a lot of people obviously like it to some extent and think itâs fine.
Not a downgrade, not inherently. controlling your kinetic flayer would not be a downgrade for the people who use it currently. Nevermind whichever fashion they play with it currently.
They can control on demand, depending on abilities.
Crit is a keyword that triggers other effects, crits give far better returns-to-investment in general. But mainly crits combo with talents and effects.
They also are a base mechanic when no abilities are put into them, you do not need to commit points to them.
People deeming it âfineâ or âliking it to some extentâ does not mean that the design is bad and uninteresting.
People seem to favor it merely for the fact that it requires no use of the actual blitz.
I think most people who use it, use rapid fire weapons and would not want to have to swap to a blitz, enable it, swap back, and then fire.
Not normally.
Well to make them worth while you do. Increase crit chance and crit damage.
Well that would tell you how bad the blitz or blitzes are in general, and how cumbersome swapping to blitzes are.