Not all of us are willing to bend over for someone else’s profit. Have some self-respect for gods sake, it’s pathetic
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Surely it’s the people complaining about being stolen 40 bucks, earned with their 2 hands IRL for a disrespectful product, that needs to touch grass. Clown
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Weeell, I wouldn’t say stolen, because they still delivered product by the end of the day, but more like faulty service added to main purchase? Like car without ABS or airbags. Or “professional massage” but with your privates itching? Still, after even couple hours of fun it leaves distaste and idea to check provider before next purchase of that nature.
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You could say mislead/false advertising with their interviews and posts leading up to the crafting update. When people had a chance to withhold buying or refunding the product.
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You’re right, as you mentionned it is more false advertising than theft but let’s not play with words, you get the idea.
They are using predatory features from f2p mobile games in a “full price” game that is not even working properly. No amount of PR speech is gonna convince healthy minds that it is acceptable.
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I mean, yeah. Tencent.
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The thing that ticks me off the most about all the RNG BS: someone (I’m not sure I remember who but my guess would be Hedge) said that the idea behind the shops was for the players to have the ability to chose your own rewards or something of that nature.
I don’t even have to play the game to know what a fat load of BS that is, simple logic defeats that “idea” just fine. If we were supposed to have the choice of what rewards we’d get, then why were the shop items random? Even now we can only buy grey with random stats and that’s what our “choice” for a reward is? Nevermind the fact that you can hoard 5mil credits, 20K plasteel and probably 100k diamantine and get precicely nothing to show for it. Maybe a single weapon that compares to a red from VT2.
How did they go from a system that encouraged trying out new stuff while not making have to slog through difficulties you’re well above at that point to the polar opposite? Every single mechanic and system in DT actively makes you not want to try out a new class or even a new weapon. DT desperetly needs new content yet they made systems that make you not even want to experience all the stuff the base game has to offer.
Who in their right mind thought that even a single player would be fine with any of these systems when it used to be so damn good in VT2/1?
That’s your established customerbase FS! Even we are sick and tired of this mess, how the hell are new players supposed to enjoy any of this? Is the strat here to hope they have nothing to compare DT to so they have no base to judge it on? Even then it get’s so infuriating so quickly that that wont work either.
That next update has to pull of an actual miracle at this pace.
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I’m with you. I want to enjoy this game, but when you hit the point where you’re just playing the same content over and over there needs to be a really solid progression system in place to keep you motivated, and what they currently have is a joke. It’s shallow compared to just about any other game of this style, and then on top of that it’s not even very likely that you’ll ever get what you want.
I’ve quit playing Darktide months ago because of this, I’m really hoping they will finally come to their senses and make playing the game long term worth it.
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Maybe they didn’t?
It has been mentioned that they thought Vermintide was going to be played for 100 hours or so. Noone, especially not those playing all characters, will be even close to being done chasing reds after 100 hours of VT2.
Maybe Darktide is designed for 10 000 hours. Gonna need some grind for that, right? Either way it’s clear that they don’t really understand their customer base, unless it’s the kind of customer that goes “40k game, sweet let’s buy it!”. I’m not saying there is anything (read: too much) wrong with someone loving 40k, I just can’t think of any other kind of customer that would keep playing the game for an extended period of time while it’s in it’s current state.
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It’s still pretty enjoyable as a “couple of games here and there” sort of game. It’s all good fun while you’re leveling and have penances to unlock, it’s really only once you hit level cap and have to rely on the crafting system for progression that it all comes to a grinding halt.
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This is how I’ve been playing, but the problem with that is the game is built with all of these artificial retention gimmicks that assume the player will be spending a lot of time playing one class, so I’m not getting anywhere. I’m almost never able to complete Melk requests in time simply because the game isn’t able to hold my interest for more than a few days here and there. It’s fine, I’m not really hunting for godroll gear anyway and I do have fun when the game works, but it does speak to how all of these metrics driven psychological tricks I’m sure some overpaid suit felt very confident about have completely failed at the intended goal of keeping people playing.
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Nail on the head with that one. Tencent’s involvement was the biggest mistake Fatshark could have ever made, period.
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This and the mission board RNG need to go ASAP before they even consider new content. Sniper gauntlet is back baby! The best mode in the game!! /s I’m glad it’s back though because now I know not to log in for the next few days!
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I wonder if they had a choice.
It seems like they ran into problems halfway through development and were forced to seek outside funding, which is when everything was restructured.
I imagine so at least, either that or someone came in one morning and said “hey guys, I just had an awesome idea on how we’re gonna make a crapton of money, trash everything you’ve done so far, we’re starting over!”
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Don’t even bother logging in and waiting on the login times. Just use this and the store checker and you can play the endgame without even signing in
Truly innovative gameplay mechanics setting the next evolution and meaning of the “idle” genre.
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There was the possibility of refunding the game throughout the entirety of november during open beta.
Some people racked 250 hours of playtime and refunded. How is it false advertizing? You can’t get more open to the players than this.
It was essentially possible to demo 90% of the game. And then after release you still saw the patch notes and had 2 further hours of refund.
That’s just… This thread is so full of negativity and it’s over absolutely trivial things.
The progression system is fine, it’s barely different from any other game endgame content. You have your mid tier gear you got while leveling and then start to maximize it. Just here it’s through a shop interface inbetween missions rather than as a raw drop - Which was also added after every mission.
Just don’t die on Damnation and you get a truckload’s worth of weapons and curios, all legendary tier.
The randomized missions aren’t the end of the world, either.
What are you two even on about? The game has every feature that was advertized. The “missing pieces” were speculatively mentioned in interviews and treated as such. You act like someone’s hurt you on a very personal level, but you seem to get up in arms over rather minute details for what it’s worth.
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How is it false advertising? Because they lied about what the crafting WOULD be like, despite it not being done:
By the time they announced what it would REALLY be and actually delivering it to us to test, too late to refund.
Also lied about when new content would release and what rate (new class every quarter).
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1. For Crafting: It wasn’t clearly much different from what we got. Potentially worse / more grindy. It said “combine Blessing”, so my guess is you’d have needed to collect 3 or 4 of the same Blessing to upgrade it’s level. They even hinted at that in some response to the question what it would be. Right now, you have the chance to have Tier 3 or Tier 4 just drop from playing any difficulty above Malice.
Yes, weapon attachments aren’t in. Plans change. Someone said a thing in an interview and then it got thrown out. I’m still glad they shared some ideas floating around instead of going dead silent modo. That’s what Japanese devs do all the time, precisely for this reason - Whatever is said before a release is absorbed in some hypetrain and leads to some expectations that don’t line up with the final thing at all.
Would it be great if we had gotten all that? Yes.
Did they intentionally lie or defraud you? No. It’s baseline software development shenanigans.
2. As for the content:
-
A) It was “planned” to be released at that rate. That was before they wrote the open letter to carry on with content creation later. Openly mentioning a plan is a commitment, yes. But not a 100% commitment.
When I plan to do a thing X, it means I have it set as target and will work towards it. But can’t be perfectly sure I will actually make it - Which is why I state it as “planned”. Not as “Will be done”. As such it’s not an intentional lie. You’re essentially inferring malice when it’s a time management thing. -
B) Is this whole “they lied” schtick getting really tired to begin with. There was never any promises made, safe for that on the store pages of the game. Okay, and the december patch. I will give you that one. But again. Wasn’t any malice, they thought they’d work through a bunch of bugs sooner and had to troubleshoot forever. That said, the features advertized on the storage page are all in, thus no classic case of lying or marketing deception happened.
They showed early plans and ideas of what they wanted to do. They retracted those later. They gave you 9 full days to test the thing with the option of refund. And it’s not even a full price title.
I hate to say words that sound dismissive, but to me it’s a case of “get over it”, not “get worked up over it”. It’s not worth it and besides, the project isn’t fully done, either.
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It is objectively not the same. If we are to agree that Victor Manguson’s interview with PC gamer as lead designer is to be trusted as a valid source of information, as well as the play darktide page highlighting what changes are coming to crafting as valid advertisement for setting up expectations and sales being generated due to said announcement… they mislead consumers.
Your Point.) You assert it isn’t “much different” what we got. False.
Why?
1.) " Combine Blessings
At the Shrine you may choose to combine three Votive Offerings into a single upgraded Votive Offering. Currently, most Votive Offerings have a maximum Tier of IV, but there are some exceptions to this. We’re testing a few different options with the requirements and the results of combining these Votive Offerings."
This functionality was straight up removed and replaced with the blessing library (potentially, maybe they were thinking of doing both). It would have been actually MORE player friendly in terms of grind and odds if you could combine 2 T1 blessings into a T2 and etc. Didn’t have to rely on the likelihood of actually finding a T4. It would have made the armory and emperors gifts more meaningful instead of just waiting at Melk’s for a T3/T4 you want.
2.) Absolutist phrasing around RNG and “perfect” playstyles.
"We also hope this blog gives you a glimpse of the broader crafting system(s) and the depth of customising your weaponry and loadout for the perfect playstyle you wish to engage with. At the heart of this is the Blessing extraction and Re-Blessing functionality, where you can collect and swap out Blessings in order to customise the different combination of weapons you wish to experiment with "
There is NO room for interpretation on the word “perfect”. You could argue they are using hyperbole, but that’s exactly what false advertising would be. If you’re pitching a product you better use clear language and expectations. As it stands anyone getting PERFECT curios and weapons is practically impossible in this system. The RNG is so mathematically bad you could spend tens of thousands of hours and never even get close to a single perfect setup with two weapons and 3 curios all with intentional 380 modifiers and stats, T4 perks, T4 blessings, etc all of a specific type. Especially on weapons with high blessings pools (range from like 4-13).
You cannot meaningfully experiment here. Would I like to experiment with T4 deflector and T4 exorcist on a force sword with 20% dmage vs maniacs and 20% damage vs infested? Sure! Will I ever be able to experiment with that and test it? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Never. Never ever ever.
3.) Increasing player agency
“We have learned a lot from our previous choices and gameplay surrounding crafting offered within the Vermintide series. For Darktide we wanted to take those lessons to expand and improve in such a way that crafting would become a central pillar of player progression, while giving more impact and agency to you, the player in your preferred playstyle .”
This is just hilariously opposite. You have MUCH less agency in practice in darktide compared to VT2. In VT2 I could get all the reds I want for weapons within 6-800 hours. And I did. Reasonable. Darktide? People are over 1000 hours without a SINGLE perfect weapon they actually wanted. Even if it’s max stats it’s usually compromising or settling on a perk, blessing, or mod stat bar (79% damage not 80%). Preferences and preferred playstyle are NOT a pillar to our progression loop. It’s compromise that’s the pillar. You bend to the gear vs bending the gear to your playstyle.
4.) Reducing randomness.
“The nature of randomization and repetitive actions sometimes seen within crafting is something that we are steering to avoid in the crafting system within Darktide. Meaningful choices will be made with strategy and goals behind them, as you set your eyes upon that perfect combination of melee and ranged weapons for your class.”
emphasis mine.
Again, hilarious. There is magnitudes more RNG (which I hate) in darktide than VT2, Which they said they learned from and wanted to reduce. They explicitly state the PERFECT combination of weapons and making it a realistic goal to set your eyes on. Not feasible. Not even worth thinking about. It’s a fools errand.
I am not talking about weapon attachments. If I had known just how GRINDY darktide would be to the point it’s not even realistically possible to ever get what you really want… I never would have bought it. I would have asked for a refund right when they went back on what they said in their November post here. But by then it was obviously too late. What is said explicitly in the “playdarktide” crafting overview, and what they announced and gave are night and day different systems. You cannot throw around words like perfect, preferred playstyle, meaningful choices, more agency, etc. and NOT expect that to be misleading when you deliver a completely random (aside from re-rolling one perk and one blessing) system that is antithetical to all of those goals.
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Mayson has replaced Darth Angeal as the intern whose job is to defend Fatshark on the forums. I wonder if Darth Angeal got promoted after 6 months of loyal shilling.
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