nah, thx i’m good.
so far this ogryn here has busted every wall with his head, taking a bit longer for this one is all 
3 Likes
Keep going brute, you are an example to all.
2 Likes
aint no stoppin this ogryn, sah. 
1 Like
Idk, you can make that argument for anything that switches up the gameplay. In most cases it’s fair to say that the game was designed specifically around how it was before. Like, the game was designed around ammo boxes giving you a certain amount of ammo, but now there’s a modifier where they give you less ammo. And there’s a maelstrom modifier where there’s no ammo pickups at all. Speaking for myself, I really like seeing new modifiers that change up the rules of the game. It keeps things interesting/spicy.
3 Likes
nerf it, nerf it all
1 Like
That’s really disingenuous and missing the fact that he was implying toughness gating wasn’t a mechanic the game is designed with in mind.
There’s a difference between a single modifier in a rotating single mission and a guaranteed negative modifier on every mission. Beyond that, I disagree with a modifier that affects a core mechanic like toughness gating, much like I’d disagree with a modifier that did something like disabling mantling or some such.
I also think 75% ammo reduction is too much so that’s not really the point you think.
It’s so strange to see people claim differing opinions are “disingenuous.” Never fails to make me chuckle.
4 Likes
Havoc is intended for players who want to walk the extra mile.
If you made it to the 75% ammo reduction, you are one of those people, since that will only happen once you reached havoc level 30.
Until then the Ammo shortage is noticeable, but not crippling. The only thing you have to deal with is the lacking Grace period. A mechanic, which the game hands you the tools to deal with.
“Core Mechanics” get altered all the time with Mael modifiers. Two restrict your vision. One puts way more Monsters than intended on a map, which usually only spawn in specific areas. One removes ammo pickups completely. One adds gas geysers to the map, which regulate movement. All of those break normal game rules.
No grace period is just another one, if the harshest so far.
I kind of hope we see the spreading sauce modifier, and the lacking grace in Auric Mael soon too. Having them in Havoc constantly is extremely restricting, but experiencing them at random every once in a while is probably as refreshing as a no ammo round.
5 Likes
It has nothing to do with a differing opinion and everything to do with ignoring the context. Ignoring the context of that also makes me chuckle. And is disingenuous. 
That’s actively missing the point. Changing map lighting or adding gas geysers do not change how character functions. I do also think the no ammo at all modifier isn’t great but it’s not the same as something like restricting your ability to shoot in the first place.
I have nothing against more difficulty. My issue is with doing so by changing the aforementioned, even more so in conjunction with using it to ‘balance’ the overperforming things.
Havoc is a different set of rules. It’s not disingenuous to think that a different set of rules is interesting or even good.
5 Likes
Ignoring the prior portion of the conversation and reason for making a statement is disingenuous, yes.
I mean, yes, the game was designed with toughness gating in mind. My point is just that changing the rules of the game helps keep it fresh and interesting. Ymmv of course. It’s just an optional new mode for those that want to try it.
As far as the random accusations of dishonesty (??) here and below, I’ll just say if you can’t be civil please don’t reply at all, thanks.
1 Like
Seriously? Pointing out something like that isn’t being civil? I was going to give you props for the first portion but 
It’s fine to disagree dude. My issue was just with jumping on one statement in the midst of all that while ignoring context. Don’t act like I was slinging slurs or something. It isn’t solely about dishonesty, it also refers to acting like you know less; you clearly could see the context.
lol yea maybe you can claim to not know what the definition of disingenuous is, but it’s practically calling someone a liar. Here’s Merriam-Webster:
: lacking in candor
also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : CALCULATING
And Cambridge:
(of a person or their behavior) slightly dishonest , or not speaking the complete truth
Ignoring the reason for saying something is the epitome of not speaking the complete truth.
This is such a stupid aside and just witch hunting at this point. I have no issue with Tinybike. If he was truly offended for daring to use the word disingenuous, I apologize.
This is why I shouldn’t engage with you.
Keep on chuckling buddy
Hey, there ya go! Taking some responsibility. I don’t think he’d have brought it up again if he didn’t think it was out of line, but he can respond on his own if he wishes to continue this.
witch hunting lol
1 Like
@tinybike Badwin gave you permission to pursue this line of argument, will you accept?
1 Like
wat?
1 Like
You were letting him know that he was allowed to respond now and continue it, I was just tagging him so he sees it, too
1 Like