Having reached 30 and started Heresy runs, and after having done some fairly intensive testing, it’s a bit irritating to realize that Psyker isn’t a sick space mage but rather an aura booster for his teammates, and that Brain Burst doesn’t scale as actual weapons do.
I would never have spent 40 hours playing a support class and I feel like the role wasn’t properly mentioned in the description as per the other classes. Everyone understood Veteran was ranged dps and everyone understood Ogryn/Zealot are tanks/melee dps, but Psyker’s role only becomes apparent after many hours of playing and after starting on Heresy difficulty when the class’s non-support abilities and weapons evaporate.
For anyone considering the role, be warned: at Heresy and above, you are going to be a piece of glass with very little damage (outside of using one particular staff with one particular mod), and are essentially a shitty Veteran with CC, worse weapons, and worse stats across the board.
Groups on Heresy+ will also demand you use a talent that only benefits teammates, which is a perfectly fair thing to expect of a support, but obviously farther reduces your own person effectiveness. Your BB becomes hilariously weak when compared to a Veteran who will melt a pack of elites before you get your first BB off, and since BB has no scaling, it takes multiple BBs to kill single elites that you could one-shot in lower difficulties. Also keep in mind that a majority of your perks require BB killing an enemy (and sometimes only elites), and you will be getting very, very few BB kills in general and next to none with a good Veteran. If you want any Warp stacks be prepared to dedicate another of your talents to gaining them because you won’t be gaining them yourself.
To be completely fair, if I’d paid closer attention I would have noted that the class’s Unique Aura doesn’t effect the Psyker at all, only teammates. And that the tier 3 perk also only effects teammates. It’s just hard to recognize it as a support class before playing. I also should have taken the hint after the massive nerfs following the closed beta; clearly people were using the class as a non-support instead of its intended role.
I love and respect supports, but hate playing the role myself. Starting all over again sucks, and I feel like I wasted 60 hours to discover that I hate my class
I doubt that this is what was intended for the class and am looking forward to more balance passes.
The phrase Class X is a shitty Veteran with more Y is pretty much the standard right now. Either they revert their nerfs, smack the bolter and power sword into the ground, or that first darktide trailer with the squad of 4 guardsmen is gonna be way more accurate than anyone expected it to be.
The perk which reduces everyones career skill by 15% applies to the psyker, does it not? Does the veteran’s ult not help you find heads to pop? does the ogryns ult not give you space to quell? I’m afraid you may be missing the point of co-op.
DPS aside, being able to take out any mob out of LoS is extremely strong.
DPS including, the surge staff(which can CC anything in the game short of monsters) does bonus damage to armored targets(flak and carapice). Ive got mine with 20%+ flak and carapice and man, it two shots marauders and armored ragers on heresy - while stunlocking them ofc.
If you are having trouble with stacks try using a high mobility weapon (dagger or axe) and staying ahead of your team.
Do i still sometimes get cucked outof keeping my stacks with a really good vet on the team? Sure, but who cares? Our 18%+ damage is negligible if my other teammates are pumping that hard.
I don’t feel weak at all playing psyker.
Nope! Doesn’t affect the Psyker. Also, Pysker’s unique perk doesn’t affect him, only teammates.
Ah, you haven’t gotten to Heresy/Damnation. BB doesn’t scale, so Hounds etc require two, the rest require 3 or 4 depending. Yesterday I had 6 elite kills on the kill feed at the same time as Vet. Just as a comparison, that’s less time than it takes to charge two BB, which again, kills one of the weakest elites.
With the lowest Toughness and lowest HP you instantly, and mean instantly die on high threat if you get mobbed or anything goes wrong. Not mention, often there are elevators and long sections with no enemies where keeping stacks is actually not possible, and often the team is looking for ammo/scriptures/grimoires.
My game must be bugged then xD
I’m 100% cool with having a support class, I just didn’t know what I was signing up for. Re-rolled a Vet and am absolutely melting everything in sight (including melee with a Power Sword), so I’m pretty much over it anyway. Going to spec my Psyker into pure support gear and play it that when I feel like chilling while my team does the work. Those support auras are dope af to have on a team.
I don’t think Psyker is intended to be a support class since it lacks anything that could describe it as such:
- no healing
- no 1st class CC (compared to other classes)
- barely any useful debuffs or buffs
I don’t think FS wants any class to be a support in the classic sense of that word in gaming.
The issue is that it’s just clunky in its design, and you get pigeonholed to a particular playstyle to compensate for how the class is poorly though out.
Hope FS redesignes this class. Doesn’t need a complete rework like some are suggesting, just needs to enable different playstyles and make them viable in higher difficulties.
But… the opposite of what you said is true tho
- No class has healing
- Has the best CC in the game with class-specific weapons, and also has a 0 damage ult that is only CC, BB is also CC, Force Sword’s push is also 0 damage CC instead of damage like other weapons, what are you even saying
- Has a unique aura that only benefits teammates, and a perk that only benefits teammates, also has a perk that increases damage to BB’d target by 15% (but only for non-warp damage, so again, for the team)
I’ve been running my Psyker as support and having a lot more fun than I did trying to force it into other playstyles, so I’m actually pretty happy in the end
Yes, no class has healing - not sure how that’s relevant to discussion about Psyker being support.
As I already said, there is no support class and probably never will. Healing, as one of the common mechanics for support classes in games is completely missing and will likely never be in the game.
What CC are you talking about? Can you specify? Surge staff?
The fact that their aura affects only teammates does nothing to add to their “support” status:
- Zealot’s aura buffs toughness
- Ogryn’s aura buffs damage
- Vet’s aura conserves resources (ammo)
I’d say that Psyker’s coherency bonus is the least support-like since it only works on something Psyker is already specialized for and is by far the most situational aura in the game.
As for the ult abilities, no one’s ability does any damage. Ogryn’s also only does CC, and has much MUCH better CC then Psykinetic’s Wrath IMO, since it enables melee classes instead of annoying them.
I think this talk about Psyker akshually being support is just copium because the class is not in a good place.
There is no support class. Psyker’s just poorly designed.
Since the Psykinetic didn’t get any balance changes with the last patch I’m assuming they are doing some more extensive work on it. Hopefully they will have the class in a good state soon.
Agree with @Lexa. Psyker isn’t “supposed to be support,” they’re just dogwater and hilariously outclassed by the OP meta bolter & power sword veteran.
Psyker needs across-the-board buffs, bolter and power sword specifically need targeted nerfs, then everything should be fine.
(Zealot also needs buffs and a case could be made for Ogryn but those two aren’t the subject of this thread.)
The psyker is best suited for horde clear, and elite support/protection.
He is able to just blow away legions of chaff units, and with the right blessings on the right weapons, can do so with zero down time. Even his toughness regen plays to this role.
On the flip side he is also a great guardian for the group using the lightening staff to stun lock and expose elites for the vet to kill and prevent pox bursters, mutants, and trappers from doing their thing.
The one ace up his sleeve that every one likes to sleep on is the force sword being a monster of a damage dealer to a single target.
The role of “Elite killer” is most definitely not his role.
You would be correct, except…
- Every other class can clear hordes just as fast if not faster. Maybe not as sustainably, but I’ve yet to see concerns about ammo stop a Veteran from unloading a bolter into the oncoming horde and turning them into red mist before I’ve even charged up a single staff blast.
- The lightning staff is very useful… for one thing and only one thing. If you take the lightning staff for CC, you lose out on any horde clearing potential you might previously have had, since the damn thing only jumps to four targets and does significantly less damage to unarmored enemies (can’t even kill a poxwalker with one blast).
- The force sword can do a lot of damage to one target… for the cost of 30% Peril, with a long charge time. Meanwhile the power sword charges faster, for free, and gets multiple swings per charge. The Force Sword is only better in a situation where there is one elite and no trash. If there are multiple elites together, or an elite surrounded by chaff buddies, the power sword is so far-and-away better as to be incomparable.
Oh i dont disagree that others can clear hordes just as well.
Nor do a deny that the lightening staffs one thing is the only thing it does. However taht one thing is very useful in the group and out of all the staves its the best one for that reason in heresy and damnation.
The force sword does not take 30% perils, thats only if you have a bad one, the force sword i have does it in like 18% peril cost, the charge time is no longer then the power sword charge up time, im not counting the charging mid swing, that is 100% a bug and ill argue that to the ground.
Force sword is a wonderful weapon in the game and offers the ability to be a tank as the psyker using a combination of talents and block cost reduction you are able to take miles of damage on your shield, it also has one of the best pushes in teh game, and it also has the BEST counter attack in the entire game. The force sword warp push, which costs 4% has the ability to stagger any non boss enemy and mutant in the game, including charging ragers.
The force sword is 100% a hidden gem in the game that everyone underestimates.
Its not apt or fair to compair the force sword to the power sword because they are who different types of weapons doing two types of jobs. Trying to copair the two is like trying to compare the thunder hammer to the axe, its not for the same thing.
Regardless, even if we assume 18% peril and the same charge time, the Power Sword is still miles ahead of the Force Sword in every aspect except the shove and the ability to block ranged attacks (which requires a specific blessing).
Again, the Power Sword gets multiple attacks per charge, and they cleave. The Force Sword gets one, which only hits a single target. Outside of the very rare circumstance where there is a single elite enemy completely separated from any backup, the power sword is just better.
I would accept the “They have different roles” argument except that the Force Sword is the only Psyker-specific melee weapon in the game currently. I am a fan of Psykers and I want to play as one - I want to bring an actual force weapon, not a Catachan bowie knife.
And I’m sorry, did you just say the words “tank” and “Psyker” in the same sentence, while the Psyker has both the lowest Toughness and the lowest Health out of any class?
It dose not need a specific blessing for its push, its push attack is base, you are thinking of the ranged blocking which does need a blessing yes.
You are again, trying to compare the power sword the force sword but thats not a fair comparison because they are not filling the same role. If you are looking for a melee weapon to clear horde on the pysker you are doing it wrong. His horde clear is his ranged weapons, his single target is melee.
I wont deny the power sword is nuts, but trying to compare the force sword with it, is going about it all wrong. It would be like trying to grade a fish on its ability to climb a tree.
Yes, the psyker is an insane tank, You can get the talent that makes it so you tank blocking on your warp perils before your stam, you then take block cost reduction on all your curios and with the force sword you can get around 50% block cost reduction. So you are able to soak attacks on your perils, push to get said perils off, take more on your perils and then take it on your stam at a 50% block cost reduction.
That’s what I said. “except the shove and the ability to block ranged attacks (which requires a specific blessing).” Perhaps I should have added a comma but those were two separate things.
I already explained why I don’t accept the “you can’t compare them” argument. Force Sword is all Psyker gets if you want to actually use… you know… Psyker weapons. If you take the Surge Staff for CC, you end up with zero horde-clearing unless you use the Catachan sword, which is strictly mediocre at best.
And who - aside from an Ogryn with the slab shield - just stands there and does nothing but block attacks for that long? In what situation is that contributing to your team or being effective? And yeah, you might be able to block a lot of attacks that way, but you’ll be using up all of your Peril and leaving yourself unable to actually do anything offensively afterward.
Psyker is capable of doing these things you mention, but only ever one of them. You can tank, but then you use up all of your resources, and you’re squishy enough that if you mess it up you’ll die in a heartbeat because you don’t have the health of an Ogryn to absorb mistakes. You can do horde-clear, but not as well as a Veteran. You can do single-target or elite CC, but then you lose out on your horde-clear.
Meanwhile the Veteran can do all of these things at once by merit of having the best all-around ranged weapon in the game (Bolter), the best all-around melee weapon in the game (Power Sword), the highest Toughness of any class, and good talents to regenerate that (10% back on every headshot kill, for example). Psyker requires you to build for a specific role and limit your ability to do anything else, and even then you only perform adequately. Veteran can do everything at once, and do it all very well.
why are you taking the surge staff? its one of his worst options in the game.
You can not accept the “You cant compare them” all you want but it does not change the fact that you are trying to compare two very different weapons for doing the same task, you cant compare the braced auto gun to say the lucius las gun and say the braced auto gun is bad because it cant kill specials from a far. They are two very different jobs for very different weapons.
Now if you wanna say we need more pysker weapons i dont disagree with you i would like to see a horde clearing version of a psyker weapon come full release at which point if you wanna compare that to the power sword then we can.
Blocking large amounts of attacks while being able to push massive amounts of enemies is extremely useful in the game, especially now so because of chip damage and how it interrupts actions. I need to test it but if taking the block on your perils while reviving someone thats a MASSIVE benefit to the team.
Which again im not sure what you are arguing here, im not, nor have i ever said that the vet cant do everything the psyker can but better. Im just telling you what the class currently does well, which is horde clear. Im on your side in that the vet is broken because he is hands down the best class in the game because of his load out and talents let him do everything better.
Power swords for horde clearing vs say the voidstirke staff? Miles away better.
The bolter in terms of single target? miles and away better.
Also to note though, the vet only regen toughness on headshot ranged kills not just headshots anymore they nerfed that because apparently that was to much. And with that said, Pysker does have the best toughness regen ability in the game bar none, but unfortunately that alone does not carry him. I suspect that if he gets some sort of psyker crowd control weapon like a force axe that cleaves and if that alt fire powers it up like the power sword but with force powers, pysker with his toughness regen ability will be one of the most broken melee classes in the game.
So the thing about BB not scaling is that it is hit with an egregious double-whammy at Heresy+: there are both stronger and more enemies. And BB neither hits harder nor faster at higher levels. So it falls off at an exponential rate, unlike weapons which hit harder as they scale up (and in some cases faster, maybe).
I think they need to make it so that at the VERY LEAST it requires the same number of hits to do its job at all difficulties. It becomes worthless for intercepting dogs, even worse for intercepting mutants, etc.
If they want to make it harder to use but not useless, they could go the other route and have it cast much much faster as you level up, so that you can interrupt a dog and then finish it off while it is recovering from the first hit. This needs to come hand in hand with better peril management though.
At least the staves somewhat scale with higher level, although I do not know if they scale as well as non-warp weapons.
Also all the Psyker’s auras should affect the Psyker, I have to believe that is a bug because otherwise ???
I have been throwing out the suggestion that to fix it they should just replace all of his level 30 talents with these as an option
option 1: Brian burst now does a % damage base. BB removes 100% health of elites and specials, and removes 50% of health from all ogryn
Option 2: Brain bursting a target applies 2 stacks of soul blaze to all enemies around the target, this stacks with kinetic overload.
Option 3: Brain burst does the same amount of damage but casts 50% faster, at 25% reduced cost
That way you have your scaling damage through difficulty option.
Your Horde clearing option so it does not feel bad using BB on a chaff unit.
Then you also have a general purpose one that makes it much more agile.
They’d have to make soulblaze not comically underpowered – it is currently 7dps/stack which means one stack takes like 15 seconds to kill a trash mob.
Potential solution: make it some kind of exponential scaling up to a maximum number of stacks based on the size of the enemy? Idk it’s so bad right now that in no circumstance do I see a reason to use it.