It’s totally valid to compare it to other weapons because it’s the same game. Going ‘well fat shark is dumb and so are those weapons’ is just another cop out for the shotguns being mediocre. Getting left behind by changing game balance is most glaringly apparent on these. Especially since the grudge and blunder have brand new competition that is generally more useful. The spread of Griffon Foot pistols and their ammo let them deal with massed unarmored elites better and the coruscation devastates all density with its fire ring the shotgun is just a bonus there. Not sure how lore would help a packmaster tank a gunshot, yes they are cruel and dominating towards their beasts but no where does that mean they have magic defense. And regardless of lore the point of your range is to help save teammates, so a close range gun that can’t even kill the one special who walks up to you in close range is not going to be a popular pick. Until you create a new game with enemy stagger and cleave resistance high enough to help them out, where they can be useful in that one situation only.
Hey that’s me!
I stand by that statement as Bluntsman’s entire strength comes from Keep it Coming, double effective range, and his ult.
I also stand by BB being good at what it’s for and take it on FK and Merc willingly.
So, too, the grudge-raker at Cata.
Lots of talk about my favorite weapon, the gryphonfeets. I’ll just say this, they need less cleave. Stat wise, they’re roughly half in every value compared to their counterparts except in ammo capacity (makes sense), and cleave, which is the same. Would like to see them have a little less and see if they’re still “OP”.
This is kind of the whole thread. Shotguns are good at what they do and you either want them for that or you don’t. BB is my anti-berserk/mauler weapon when I just don’t want to deal with them or compete with my team for special kills.
Unless the entire game gets rebalanced, specifically ranged traits, the shotguns as they are don’t really need to change.
lol yeah
I think Huntsman does a fine job covering the weaknesses and playing to the strengths of Blunderbuss.
It could be a little better with some small tweaks revolving around headshot synergy.
IIRC shotguns used to actually count headshots and even proc barrage stacks reliably. But that was during the dark times, the Ranged-Meta times.
After that shotguns have only the one true pellet that actually matters when it comes to headshots and critical hits, because breaking shotguns to work with bad traits was preferable to making traits and talents work with shotguns.
But then shotties got buffed to where they’re at now. I can’t even make a stink about the headshot thing, bang sticks are strong.
I can’t find anything specific, would you elaborate? What makes them so tough?
Not specifically: Packmaster | Warhammer Wiki | Fandom
As I understood it, Packmaster are tamer and slavers of the Clan Moulder beasts which can run havoc sometimes just for fun. As such Packmaster have to be stronger then the beasts they are taming which is why Packmasters are generally known as skilled warriors. So in my understanding, they are at least on par with Rat Ogres in fighting power. Admitted, this doesn’t mean that they can take a beating per se when they are just nimble enough to dodge everything. But I would assume that Packmasters get the one or other punch during their work.
If you’re arguing for stuff like Moonfire bow to be the baseline then you are arguing for power creep and trivialising content. It’s not too late to nerf the overperformers, clearly FS is somewhat willing, they nerfed radiant inheritance recently.
I’m sorry you’re not very good with shotguns. There are a lot of players here who agree shotguns are excellent on Cata, and still good on Legend. I already stated I agree the monster damage is needlessly low, but otherwise you’re completely off base here.
What a garbage comment. I could just as easily stoop to your level of dialogue and claim that only a person who is bad at this game would inflate the value of a weapon that is only useful against hordes. I’m sorry that you’re not good at clearing enemies and would rather take another horde clearing weapon instead of a range weapon that adds something to your team. Do you feel like your opinion was in any way addressed or respected now?
Obviously no one is saying turn the entire range category into moonfire bows, I’m starting small and saying that shotguns AT THE VERY LEAST could kill ONE special enemy in close range better than they they can’t now, like a perfectly squared meatshot into a packmaster is harder than a throwing axe headshot but he totally no sells it and adds to the massive underwhelming bleh of shotguns countering you by existing. My point in bringing it up is simply to state that it should have some niche for it, instead of being forgotten as they dump all around dominating weapons into the game by the paid content pack. You don’t even disagree with this either, so how you can even possibly turn around and claim that these weapons are totally awesome and just being used wrong is disingenuous and you know it. Though again we need to move the argument off the page into modded content, since shotguns even in regular cata aren’t necessary, certainly not if specials aren’t being handled. Which I guess you can count on in pre mades, but not quick play
My comment about you being bad with shotguns was silly, sure, but it was mostly just poking fun at the fact you keep insisting they’re bad as if it’s an undeniable fact despite the number of very good players here saying that it’s a good weapon.
And yes I did agree their monster damage is too low, so I don’t know why you’re still arguing with me over that point. I’m not gonna pretend having monster damage that’s a bit too low cripples the weapon though, it doesn’t, it’s still a good weapon that puts out excellent dps as is. If the monster damage was increased a bit there’s nothing left you could reasonably fault with the weapon.
I also find it pretty rich that you call my comment garbage when you keep going on about modded content as if the majority of the defences in this thread are bringing that up (they’re not). Most people here are talking about Cata or Legend. The DWONS tournament is a side point that was ironically originally used to argue that the weapon isn’t that good, then there were a few comments responding to that but it was hardly the main point. Also calling a weapon “unnecessary” is silly. People true solo Cata so by that logic most weapons are unnecessary. Shotguns have a solid niche, and HS Ult compensates the majority of BB’s weaknesses.
Now that’s a disingenuous statement. We actually gonna pretend that Maulers and Berserkers don’t exist?
Also please actually respond my posts, not to the thread generally if you’re gonna argue with me. Otherwise I don’t even get a notification, it’s like sub-tweeting, just kind of annoying.
Maybe it’s worth taking our personal experiences out of this, or at least our anecdotes out of the equation and look at a video of someone using the weapon. I found a cataclysm solo bot run from some person on youtube from like 2020.
I watched the first thirteen minutes and my impression was “Hey, this is not that different from my experience with this weapon” (except I can’t play cataclysm) so here you go:
Things I notice:
- A lot of stuff the blunderbuss couldn’t kill that another ranged weapon would have been able to kill (Long range, not really it’s job)
- A lot of stuff that was threatening the party that did unnecessary damage because the blunderbuss couldn’t kill it. (Again, range and armor, not really it’s job)
- A lot of switching to melee because the blunderbuss couldn’t control any kind of volume of enemies. (This is kind of it’s one job)
- A few “ideal” situations where the blunderbuss would take out a large swath of enemies, but then followed by melee combat (again, due to the reload) with basically the same result but more reliably and with more sustained output.
So people who are arguing the blunderbuss is okay - or good - is this a good example of the blunderbuss performance you’re imagining? I’d love to see video examples of runs people think that are good examples of the blunderbuss being good, because my (admittedly) short search came up with the same kinds of results I see in game.
Just having some concrete vids to discuss would ground the conversation a lot.
It’s a good idea. When I’m home and back in front of my computer I’ll have a look what I can find. I will say I think solo is a bad environment to show off its strengths, as is the case for most weapons that excel at a niche at the cost of versatility. It’s definitely a weapon that shines vastly more with group coordination. The reality is that with 4 competent humans, you rarely actually need more than 2 decent special snipers, so having other people with weapons that excel in a niche (in this case deleting hordes, Maulers, Berserkers, and close range specials with extreme prejudice) can make a run much smoother.
Again though, finding video evidence to discuss is a good idea. I’ll have a look around.
Legend shotguns definitely aren’t good since you’ll need your pre made to make it viable and when that’s occurring every spottable enemy is just getting sniped anyway. So why not use use the drakegun for the infantry since entire hordes disappear into that and you can pull enemy aggro/tank? Cataclysm has just as many stormvermin hordes where it’s useless again and it passes up the boss killing potential of RV or Huntsman. You can hop off your high horse and find something to actually sell me on this weapon now without getting high off your own farts and nothing more.
Remembering that the griffon foot pistols are better at clearing the massed unarmored enemies you keep insisting is the buttery high note of the Blunder, while clearing crowds better.
Remembering that the coruscation staff is a barely worse shotgun with a much better density control that includes armored enemies and bosses at the same time.
This is why the blunderbuss and grudgeraker could use a buff, like more monster damage and trollhammer-style blocking. Some ammo sustain for not Ranger or Huntsman could be cool. Not making them into moonfire bows but giving it a close range edge. Since we’re adding so many weapons with an advantage vs everything it would be nice to at least have some dominant in x area. Like a shotgun in CQB.
Dude I am way too exhausted from work at the moment to argue with someone as bizarrely angry and aggressive as yourself. Believe what you want about shotguns, ask for buffs if you like. I’ve said what I wanted to about them, maybe one of the many people here who also think shotguns are good will want to continue this with you.
What is this a blog? I’ve given you more than ample opportunities to explain something good about these weapons, and the best you come back with is ‘I’m really good and I disagree sucks to suck’. Now apparently I’m the one being offensive when you couldn’t even touch this discussion respectfully one time. Then again you do think everyone on this forum should be hanging on your every word at ‘trust me bro’ alone so I guess it must feel like personal attacks to be challenged ever.
It’s not really changing game balance. 90% of weapons aren’t at the level of some of the stronger dlc weapons and never will be. It’s not unheard of for companies to introduce new op dlc weapons to incentivise purchasing of a dlc and then nerf said weapons later. Axe and Falchion is an example of this. The last time weapons were buffed, Fatshark was pretty conservative with most of them, particularly most ranged weapons. Just look at how Swift Bow and Volley Crossbow were handled.
Griffon-foot doesn’t do this well either. It takes more shots with Griffon-foot to kill a Packmaster than it does for Grudge or Blunder, and it’s worse at killing specials at any range except point blank.
Good idea potentially.
Shotguns have the fastest close range infantry special kill time in the game of all ranged weapons, without aim requirements and without significant investment. They do not need to also be effective vs Packmasters at close range when they already clear most things around one. They could have more monster damage but one shotting Packs isn’t something they need.
Not all weapons need to be balanced for quickplay. GK struggles when players aren’t on special duty but is still a strong career. Sure, shotguns could use more monster damage. A blocking feature would be a nice QoL improvement that I have no qualms with.
My Own Strong Opinions:
Playing with someone that has a shotgun on the team usually isn’t very fun, not because they can’t handle specials at long range or kill Packmasters when close, but because they oversimplify hordes. Same thing with most forms of aoe damage and a lot of ults too. I don’t know what changes shotguns should really get, but in the current state of the game I think they’re effective but boring for everyone involved after five minutes, like most forms of hyper dps that is easy. Things like shotguns trivialise content and entire threats while ignoring core gameplay mechanics. Same thing with flamethrowers. Excessive crowd control and stagger as well.
I don’t like extremes. I think nothing should do a specific job with a 10/10 score and solo an entire aspect of gameplay, at most 9/10. I know a lot disagree with me on this, but I can’t understand how watching someone kill all of the berserkers is not dull.
And there’s another wall that comes around to my same viewpoint. Not sure why people are engaging with me like shotguns aren’t lacking and in need of some change, range weapons that give up the purpose of range weapons should get something back. I’m not even asking the moon here, just some reason to exist beyond playing modded realm. Since even cataclysm I won’t pick them and I definitely am not using them in legend.
I actually would push back on this. I do want to see shotguns buffed but the right click stock bash is so good in terms of both stagger and cleave. It’s basically a temp health fountain and enough stagger, range, and cleave to keep hordes at bay.
If that got replaced with a block push that consumed stamina I would be so sad.
As it stands, the Buss of Blunders is Kruber’s only horde killer. There. It’s good for that and that alone. New power creep ranged weapon for Krubby please, Fatshark. Oh yeah and you can whack with it.
Then again, if you’re a god you can just kill 8 rats with repeater don’t get me wrong. I’m just not able.
I’d be fine with it being buffed to be able to 1 shot a storm vermin in the least but it’s intended use is always there for you. It’s up to the player to decide whether that’s what they want or not.
Oh I’d just make the block the weapon special and keep the push bash as is.
This makes me want to give everything a tertiary function with special mouse button.