What is wrong with the Huntsman

First off,
The blunderbuss is broken.

  1. Crosshair if off the center of the pellet spread. The real center is actually above and slightly to the right. This doesn’t happen with the Grudge-Raker, it’s dead on center.
    https://imgur.com/a/CT4D5
  2. Headshots are unreliable. I think the game assigns a single pellet to determine if a headshot is achieved, even though multiple pellets can give headshot damage. I have no idea of which it is and where it’s going.
  3. Shield overkill. A single wooden shield will block the entire blast. About 135 damage lost.

Half of the Huntsman’s talents involve headshots so the Blunderbuss can never be balanced for him because it uses just half of his kit. It relies on bruteforcing by using just the extra damage from active skill together with a tripot.

Also, the Blunderbuss (12 pellets) does about the same damage per pellet as the Grudge-Raker (9 pellets), but it has higher spread (Huntsman can equal it with -25%), less ammo (18 vs 20) and reloads every shot as opposed to once per two shots. It’s much worse.

Second,
The Repeater handgun.

The repeater has so much spread that even with 25% reduction it can only reliably headshot at about under 7m distance, which is similar to the Swiftbow.

  • Huntsman needs to headshot to recover ammo. Waystalker doesn’t.
  • The repeater does more damage per shot but the Swiftbow has much higher DPS and doesn’t slow movement and dodge.
  • The repeater leaves Huntsman vulnerable to melee because it has only average rate of fire and a small magazine of 8. Waystalker can effectively use the Swiftbow up to point-blank range since she can always spam a few arrows to stagger enemies or activate Trueshot to panic out.
  • With charged attacks, Kerillian has much higher accuracy (perfect if standing still) while still retaining damage comparable to the repeater. She can play sniper, Kruber can’t.
  • The Repeater does damage against armor, but it’s similar to the halberd. Considering it’s effective range it’s easier to just use the halberd because it has block/shove, cleave, etc.

Like the Blunderbuss, since the repeater is so poor at headshotting, it only uses effectively about half of the Huntsman’s kit and so it also is just about shoving damage when Hunter’s Prowl is active.
This makes sense to me because together with the Blunderbuss these were the 2 weapons most exploited when the Hunter’s Prowl multiplier was x5.

The only good use I can think for this weapon is to activate Makin It Look Easy and then proceeding to use the bonus in melee. Since the Mercenary has been buffed and already had 150hp vs 100hp of the Huntsman I find it nonsensical to place the Huntsman in constant melee combat.

Third,
The Handgun.

I’ll compare it with the Imperial Longbow.

  1. The Handgun doesn’t need to charge, it always does full damage.
  2. The Handgun has superior armor penetration at 95% dmg vs unarmored while the Longbow has 75% when fully charged but much less when uncharged.
  3. The time to charge/aim both weapons is similar, but reload lowers the handgun’s rate of fire.
  4. Comparing charged attacks, the Handgun does about 40% more damage against armor but only about 12,5% more damage against unarmored.
  5. The Handgun has 44% of the longbow’s ammo.

My target isn’t SV. WS, BH, Pyro and even the longbow kills SV perfectly fine.
My target for the Handgun are chaos elites. Maulers and CW.
I didn’t perfectly stack bonuses to maximize damage vs chaos elites and as it is I can’t one-shot any of them without activating Hunter’s Prowl.
If the argument is that it’s possible to achieve a critical break point with the Handgun then that argument is weakened because strength potions reduce armor class. When fully boosted the Longbow will deal similar damage per shot as the Handgun vs armor.
Beating a dead horse. Speed potions increase the Longbow’s rate of fire. Speed potions do NOTHING for the handgun.

The Handgun requires less shots to kill them vs the longbow, but it is also generally less ammo efficient and has less DPS.

The handgun has flat trajectory and instant or nearly instant travel time. It’s good at sniping at that’s that. The Huntsman’s bonuses don’t seem to really benefit the handgun and it’s best as a sidearm for his other careers.

Fourth,
Hunter’s Prowl

The visual effect is TERRIBLE. It’s been plagued with visual glitches since I ever saw it in the closed beta.
Currently it looks like this to me - https://imgur.com/Bgzj6t6. Not enough. It ALSO makes every weapon “reload” so you lose time and aim.
Now, even what seems the intended effect, the reduced FOV is simply USELESS. It makes everything much worse by shifting your aim around. You will lose time from your precious 5 seconds just to adjust your sight + the visual crapfest that always happen when it’s active, which you will be PLEASED if it actually ends so you don’t play the rest of the game with a green, overexposed screen.

Hunter’s Prowl also gives invisibility, which is good, purposely to “ambush foes”, but you only get 5s total time. There’s no time to actually move around AND attack with the bonus. All ambushing you do is when you Steroid yourself into oblivion and miss a 200 dmg shot into an ally.

The Good,
The Longbow.

I think it’s the only weapon really viable. All his other ranged weapons are firearms and are have weak stats that impair their use as spread, ammo capacity and reload. The longbow doesn’t have to reload so his talent choices are streamlined.

Although his arrows are weaker against Kerillian’s when headshotting. Huntsman’s bodyshots have so much force they drop everything but CW even if they don’t kill.
The Huntsman can currently stack so much crit with talents that the Longbow can actually be good against enemies, even CW, which no other ranged weapon is actually effective. With sufficient crit his bodyshots also don’t deplete ammo so fast.

Opinion.

  • Firearms suck for Huntsman because he has to pump so much stats into them.
    He should have the +20% reload speed and at least +15% less spread baked in his passive career stats.

  • Waste Not, Want Not and Taal’s Blessing are inferior to BH’s Prize Bounty for Firearms because BH’s actually reduces how often he has to reload. If one/both of them were converted to not spending ammo it would greatly benefit firearms.

  • The BH has nice lvl25 talents which modify how his active behaves. I think it would be interesting if a talent Lvl15 or Lvl25 talent would be converted to enhance ammo instead of just pumping stuff with damage. I think of something like explosive rounds for firearms, so they had an aoe blast effect proportional to caliber. Similar to fireball staff LMB or drakefire LMB.
    Blunderbuss could be converted to fling small bombs, so it would still be mostly AOE damage instead of “now you have enough damage to oneshot CW”. It would also avoid the weird “shield blocks everything” because it could be ground targeted giving an effect similar to Conflagration staff w/o DOT.
    Arrows could give DOT’s or w/e.

  • Hunter’s Prowl duration should be extended to 10 seconds to match Shade’s invisibility. Upon attacking, invisibility is cancelled and begins the 5s of damage.

  • Remove the stupid filters from every ability. WTF is that for? Is this 2008 again? It feels like playing Fallout 3. It’s like a compilation of the WORST instagram filters in game form. Like someone just found out how to apply recolor filters and everything NEEDS to have a palette.

  • Edit: Longbow shouldn’t zoom after charging because most players find it counter-intuitive to lose accuracy while zooming in. Max charge + minimum spread zone could be extended a little. The Huntsman could have the same passive as Waystalker that allows zooming w/ an extra button.

  • (2) Blunderbuss fires 12 pellets vs 9 from the Grudge-Raker. So 4/3 of it’s damage p/ shot.

Bug note:
Currently Makin It Look Easy doesn’t show it’s duration in it’s icon and it also shares the same icon as Call Out Weakness (which is probably a placeholder from beta).

17 Likes

Very good post. I agree on pretty much everything. Now imagine you are not even playing huntsman. Every ranged weapon on kruber besides longbow is underwhelming to say the least. Repeater handgun is probably the saddest thing in the game for me, ranged weapon wise. It was so much more enjoyable in v1. I think fatshark was a bit too affraid of v1 ursula reigning supreme again.

2 Likes

Gotta agree, the only viable item in huntsmen’a range arsenal is sadly only the longbow on legend, everything else has too many drawbacks to function well. I doubt Fatshark will change his 25 talents since they seem to be more on the unique end then a number of other characters 25 talents, but adding a passive trait like addition reload speed for firearms would be pretty beneficial. Right now dwarf out-performs kruber’s blunderbuss badly with his grudgeraker, but at least make kruber solid with longer range firearms.

Actually, does anyone happen to know the minimum properties required at 600 hero power to 1 body-shot a stormvermin? How much %armor and/or %skaven is the minimum? 1.0.5 did a number on kruber but with Kerillian needing 3 body shots per stormvermin and most bounty-hunters using xbows and being forced to do mid/close range fire, Huntsmen’s probably in the best spot to act as a general anti-special character, even more then Sienna.

Already a topic about this:

You really didn’t have to spend so much time nit-picking every weapon — nearly every class has an optimal weapon right now. It’s much more important that power differences between classes are evened out first, which is the argument you started making with comparisons to BH anyway.

Huntsman is actually in an extremely powerful spot right now when built correctly ; although he lacks the clearing power of BH’s volley cross his special sniping is far more reliable. Hunter’s prowl can take out several chaos knights in its short duration or take half the boss’s HP on legend, granted you can land the headshots. With his buffed crit talent scrounger is all you need to sustain yourself.

Speaking from experience as a 30+30 kruber main in legend.

100% agree. Huntsman trolls us: half passive/talents based on headshot and its ranged weapons suck to accurate aim:

  • coach gun: obv reasons;
  • rep gun: obv reasons;
  • handgun: wtf weapon, it is a fire gun, but:
    ~ to max accuracy it needs too much time, as
    a bow;
    ~ max accuracy isn’t still 100%
  • bow: it loses accuracy when charged. I KNOW that we don’t need full charge to full damage, but in this way we have less time to aim; Kerillian haven’t this problem.

And we have to add that, these weapons, aren’t so strong. Just coach gun and bow are good, but:

  • coach gun doesn’t inflict damage against bosses; bad thing to dps career;
  • bow needs perfect bonus on bow and charm to shot just flame, gatling, gutter rat ans SV.

All this while cereers like Pyro and BH, can kill ALL.

3 Likes

Wow this career is even more worthless than I thought. Why even bother with it? As far as I am concerned Kruber has 1 career, the rest is just filler.

5 Likes

stormvermin have 39 hp or 3900 on armoured dummy ( power vs skaven and vs armour works on those dummies )

disagree. huntsman talents synergize very well with the handgun.

20% reload speed talent does NOTHING for longbow. however, this is always active for the handgun, without speed pots. gotta look at it from the other perspective.

you can’t one shot maulers and cw, but you can one shot body shot ALL specials at ANY distance, without having to adjust for projectile time and drop, and one shot headshot any berserkers. also, you KNOCK down maulers with each shot.

with conservative shooter + extra 2 bullets on headshot talent = 3 shots per headshot, your ammo efficiency is fully dependant on skill. ambient mobs that are standing around doing nothing are the best for always being at top ammo, but horde requires a bit of skill to place your headshots. for boss fights, aiming for the head during ult will top you off.

disagree here too. if you mean flat out dps against bosses running around, then yes, the longbow would win out, since the longbow also has an additional bonus damage boost against bosses. however, since i’m killing 80% of specials and elites in all my games, damage evens out.

the visual effect is terrible as it bugs out after you ult leaving your screen brighter/darker with screen artifacts. also the stupid crouching motion means you gotta realign your shots after pressing ult. terrible implementation of an ult. =( the ult is useful for getting out of dangerous situations too tho, not only to boost damage.

thing is, you’re trying to use a handgun like a longbow, which doesn’t work out. the handgun is a sniping weapon, you absolutely murder elites and specials - even before other classes can even tag them some of the time. leech porting into party? one shot. blightstormer 2 farm fields away? one shot. flying assassin in the air? one shot. also… SHIELDVERMIN/shield dudes? one shot! longbow can’t deal with them. when you are fighting a horde and a random stormvermin pops up, you can switch, shoot, and switch back to melee. i think it’s dangerous to do so on longbow because its weapon switch is long.

well, which other weapon can one shot bodyshot all specials with no projectile travel time at any distance? what’s wrong with pumping stats to achieve it?

this is true, of course having free crit ammo every 8 seconds is the best ammo conservation we’re gonna get. EVERYTHING is inferior to that skill (with blessed shots) in regards to topping off ammo.

since it always bugs out and interferes with combat and vision, friggin remove it please, grrrr.

anyway, i run with handgun instead of longbow because if i can eliminate all specials and most elites on my own, my runs are much smoother. let the other 3 guys specialise in killing bosses (i do moderate dps against bosses, but not enough to solo quickly) but yea, i strongly recommend giving the handgun another go.

my setup: +dmg to chaos,infantry,skaven,armoured. very fun and very easy to carry.

1 Like

You can one-shot CW outside of your active.

if you mean crit hits… that’s not really one shotting, because you can’t guarantee a crit on every shot. you also probably need a specialised armor build for that. never seen it tho.

It’s actually huntsman’s strongest build imho since he can get crits rather reliably with the headshot talent.

3 Likes

I find huntsman very reliable as well, and being able to shut down chaos warriors from a distance with 3 shots from a rifle without critical hits or career active? People are really not giving that enough value, pretending that is bad or outright ignoring the effectiveness.

I’m going to assume you mean knight, even though mercenary is an absolutely brutally effective front liner, one of the best there is, with far higher killing capacity than knight though a bit less utility without a low cooldown knockback.

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Watch everyone who says hs is still good or yadda yadda probably play eazy mode beam staff all day on legend with ult reduction build and spam and defend that garbage play style.

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Besides the fact that there are easier builds than beam staff CDR Sienna, the problem with Huntsman is atm that he needs very optimized builds to shine. There is almost not middle ground: either you got the equipment to make him a very effective boss and elite killer, or you lag behind.

So those who aren’t doomsayers about a career are playing garbage playstyles?
Yeah, WHC is so meta.

/slow clap

In any case, if huntsman is so bad, why are there so many huntsmen about in pugs?
I think rather than buffing him into oblivion, he needs some quality of life adjustments, especially related to quickswapping weapons.

2 Likes

Well that’s just wrong. Hookrats are completely out of your reach for one-shots at max range. Additionally, while others can be one-shotted, they need massive +power for it. Example: you need over 32% power to one-shot stormsorcs/leech/globadiers at max range, meaning you need to stack all 4 properties vs them and even then you can’t do it for all of them.

Did you mean maulers? Because for CW, you’d need to stack over 100% power. Sure, possible if you combine barrage/hunter with crit power and +power or possibly utilizing the 25% damage increase on crits, but that’s some insane stacking and a lot of ifs.

Which the bolt staff can do too.

I personally would be fine with the handgun if they gave back it’s old headshot mutliplier that was inadvertently nerfed in 1.0.8.2.

Pretty much. It works like a charm, though.

Well, yeah.

That is my point, really.

but you can do the same thing with LB, you body basically every special aside from armored ones but hitting breakpoint for SV / armor is pretty easy if you want to go that route

ehhh I disagree.

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