Its “similar in construction to caprace armor”
[citation needed]
I don’t know why you think the Moebian 21st use Carapace Armour. Flak armour is very commonly depicted as rigid plates, especially on Cadian infantry models.
Again, Inconsistent in the RPG systems. Armor called “carapace” is sometimes as low as 3 or 4. And tau were 4 in I think one of the only war books and I believe are 5/6 in one of the other systems. I mean you are pulling stats from two different systems there lol (I’m guessing tau from deathwatch and storm trooper from only war). Yes the stats are mostly interchangeable but there are different stats between dark heresy and only war and etc, I mean I think rogue trader has heretics with “”“carapace”“” that are 3 on the legs/arms, 5 on the chest and 4 on the head.
I mean seriously the stats you show here have a big ass, stim enhanced, scion able to sling around a plasma cannon, having less wounds and similar strength to a standard tau soldier lol.
Scab Ragers have carapace chest plates, despite the chestplates being the same ones that are on scab gunners.
And anyways if you dont think this looks more like scion armor then standard flak armor then idk how to help you but a optometrist might.
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I’m not illiterate. I’m saying that it looks like carapace armor, and would be considered carapace armor most of the time. It has all of the same traits the only difference is a slightly shorter chest plate. I mean they even have the screen on the right arm.
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Recent change, was flak before. Devs aren’t gonna change model and texures for the sake of minor gameplay change.
Doesn’t matter how it looks. You can’t rly say what is flak or carapace by looking at. Carapace is supposed to be thicker and heavier and that’s it
It does for level of protections aswell. You can have a full body armor made of flak materials, or just a piece of carapace, like maulers have their helmets. It’s just most of the time guards don’t have a full body armor, cause who cares, expandable.
Carapace is made of fantasy composite materials, while flak is similar to modern day armor.
Carapace armour consists of large rigid plates of armaplas, ceramite or some other strong material molded to fit parts of the body. While heavy to wear and unable to cover flexible areas such as joints, it offers far better protection over lighter types of armour such as flak armour.
Flak armour consists of multiple layers of different ablative and impact absorbent materials designed primarily to deflect or absorb the majority of the force from a shot or blow. It is meant to provide defence against low-velocity, dispersed damage, such as explosions, shrapnel and ricochet material, rather than to protect against a direct impact, in which case the armour’s protection is poor. Some layers commonly used include Carbon-fibre, Plasfibre and Thermoplas strips, although a number of specialised materials can be integrated in non-standard suits. Most guardsmen wear Flak Armour, a cheaply produced, lightweight armour vest provided en-masse to Imperial Guard units. A flak vest consists of a skeleton of lightweight, flexible metal. This skeleton is then wrapped in multiple layers of a high-tensile fabric that is the main protective component of the armour. After multiple layers of fabric are affixed to the skeleton, the vest is given its toughened outer shell. The same principle is used in the production of Guardsman helmets and bracers. Guards for knees and legs are also produced. Thermal-absorbent materials, applied to reduce the thermal signature of the infantry, help with staying invisible during night recon missions
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Carapace armor has no actual definition, I mean that zero, the definition is up to whatever writer is writing that book your reading. Its not a armor rating like irl you have level IV body armor that is designated to stop .308 AP. Its more of a general style then anything. The lore you quoted here is outdated and 100% does not reflect modern depictions.
Long Explination/Rant about 40k lore:
The definitions you may find are actually just random one off lore bits pulled from a hundred different codexes or one off lines in random books. You cant say “Ah well a carapace armor plate must be at least X thick made out of Y materials in order to meet the requirements to be considered carapace” because those requirements don’t exist. Were talking about imperial guard lore, meaning, there is no lore, we know nothing with any confidence and even less for certain. You ask 8 different writers you get 12 different answers.
Need I remind you that according to a few different sources lasguns produce enough power to fry the entire planet from shooting it once? GW writers never provide specifics and when they do they screw it up.
This is considered “carapace” despite being literally just a standard flak chestplate that is identical to standard flak chestplate
I know my 40k lore, you cant give me a quote or bit of information I haven’t read already, the difference is I have read enough to realize there is zero consistency, and looking at the fandom wiki is stupid because it will contradict whatever else you are reading. The only consistency we get is how stuff is generally shown to work in books and other media.
This quote comes from the 1st edition dark heresy core rule book. This is 2008 lore, meaning it may as well be fan fiction because it has zero impact on how stuff is written now.
Oh and this quote? This comes from the 1987 rogue trader core rule book. 1987. And for the record in that book the “fabric” is actually described as a type of plasteel mesh that is like a fabric, and either way this isnt how flak armor has been depicted in the last 30 years. Every single offical artwork you will ever find shows flak armor to just be solid plasteel, infact basically all armor is shown to be solid plasteel. Sometimes you see some ceramic type stuff under the metal of marine armor but overall armor plates are just shown to be solid metal 99% of the time.
This is what imperial guard looked like when that lore was written:
Yeah they wore flexible flak jackets like WW2 bomber crews type deal.
If you can find me one quote describing flak armor as having any sort of fabric in it, from any book written in the last 10 years. I would say I would give you money but fact is you wont, because thats just not how flak armor plates are ever described. They never fray around the edges or come undone or something, there arent loose bits of fabric around bullet holes like you would get with modern fabric armor. Its always just a hole in a metal plate.
More explination:
Tau are not shown to have super tough armor in basically any media, it generally preforms about as well as flak armor, they usually die from a single hit and even get stabbed through their armor plates half the time. There might be a one off line in one of their codexes about how cool and awesome their armor is, but that’s just not how its shown to work in any other media.
Frankly their codex fluff could say their armor is made out of adamantine for all I care and that wouldnt change anything. They aren’t shown to be a elite unit, they get mown down in mass by eldar and space marines, and are generally shown to be a bit more competent then a average imperial guard unit as long as they don’t need to fight in close quarters.
They just aren’t shown to be a elite unit, their armor is shown to be worse then a scion’s most of the time, because most writers just don’t think they are as cool as scions. Scion armor gets to bounce the occasional bolter shot in some books because scions are arbitrarily higher on the power ranking scale in that one writer’s brain.
Tau on the other hand, well whenever you are supposed to care about a tau character, or think they are cool in any way, well they get a battle suit. I cant think of a single named fire warrior. So baseline tau armor is shown to be weaker generally since we generally dont care about random tau soldiers.
TLDR/Summarization: If tau were added to the game (and I highly doubt that anyways). They would not get the in game arbitrary armor class of “carapace”, because they are not generally shown to be that tough. Their battle suits would get carpace sure. But there is absolutely 0% chance random fire warriors would be added with carapace all over their body.
It’s from lexicanum, wich referes to different codexes
Proof?
You are contradicting yourself.
Mauler has flak body, but carapace helmet, yet he has full body armor you would think it should be carapace.
It’s a kasrkin sergant, kasrkin use carapace armor wich is made of different from flak materials.
You think that carapace refers to the word meaning -
full body armor, but it’s not neccesary. This is always depicted on art. cause of miniatures. Because on tabletop you need a visual clarifictaion. This is why units with better armor also has more body parts covered, cause of tabletop.
Lorewise, some bountyhunter can be covered in cheap flak armor. Or some regiments can have only carapace vests.
Not a new thing BL writers doing lore mistakes.
Uh, cause Tau don’t use the same materials as the Imperium.
I literally told you where those two sources you were using are from. If you want me to go grab pictures from those books then I can. But yeah the lexicanum and fandom wiki are both generally dumb. We very rarely get specifics about things such as what carapace armor even is, and when we do its usually one off lore from a random one line in a codex.
If you want to know how strong something is your better off just reading books and seeing how strong its generally shown to be.
No the entire lore is a mistake. It all contradicts itself, you can pull one source that says one thing and then look at another and see something else. I can show you old sources that say space marines are lunatics who literally eat feces as a right of passage. I can show you sources that say a lasgun bolt has the muzzle energy of a nuclear bomb.
When it comes to specifics you kind of just have to accept that there is no lore and just go for what stuff is generally shown to be like. Like the valkary according to the lexicanum/fandom wiki is said to have 75mm thick plasteel armor across all of it, and its also said to be 13 tons. I don’t need to run the math to tell you that’s off by a order of magnitude. But if you want to take the lexicanum as gospel then I guess that means plasteel has the density of helium.
I’m going to stick with not reading the books and appreciating the often-camp, best when over-the-top “lore” in its proper use and setting: Rule-of-cool fodder for a game.
I hear, BTW, that Amazon will be making a live-action Emperor text-to-speech series as a youth-market, prime time soap opera.
Honestly I wish 40k lore was at all consistent lol.
Again, Inconsistent in the RPG systems.
Okay, then here’s Carapace Armour statline as presented in the Deathwatch Core Rulebook:
6 AP to all body locations. Which is the same as Fire Warrior armour.
I have already addressed this. Fact is thats just not how it is ever shown to be in any books or animations or anything. I mean the rpg books are okay as rough sources, but… I mean, look at those weights, 15kg for a full body suit of carapace armor? That is how much a single 1/2in armor plate weighs irl. You really think that’s how much carapace armor is supposed to weigh in lore? Or is it a random number pulled out of thin air for this RPG system because it works well for how carry capacity is calculated here.
Uh? It takes info from core and rulebooks. What is your source, like BL writers who contradict to each other ofter or headcanon?
You claimed it’s outdated. Is there any proof of this statement?
Such things most of the time are being retconned. Like Space Marine half aeldari librarians.
The fact GW don’t know physics has nothing to do with that, there are different things in WH that shouldn’t work, but does, cause rule of cool. However this has nothing to do with basic things like carapace made of better materiasl (even if they don’t make sense) and flak made of worse, again no matter how nonsensical those materials from the real world perspective.
Fact is. Tau are never shown to be anywhere near as tough as something like a scion. Idk what you want from me, there is a 0% chance tau would be added to the game with the in game carapace armor level over their entire body.
Yeah the same core rule books that contradict each other constantly and make no sense half the time. The lore fluff pages in a codex are about as reliable a source for how strong something actually is, as your cousin Timmy’s fan fiction. They have zero impact on how things are actually shown to behave generally.
If the fluff said “tau armor is as good as scion carapace armor” and then in most stories and animations they were actually shown to be that strong. Then that would be one thing. But as it is, this is just another case of bad fluff text that doesn’t make any sense in context.
I have already addressed this. Fact is thats just not how it is ever shown to be in any books or animations or anything.
[citation needed]. You have provided precisely zero sources so far, so anything you say might as well be headcanon.
I mean, look at those weights, 15kg for a full body suit of carapace armor? That is how much a single 1/2in armor plate weighs irl. You really think that’s how much carapace armor is supposed to weigh in lore?
Please explain why is this at all relevant in the comparison between the protectiveness of Fire Warrior armour and Imperial Carapace armour. Also.
Last line. This outright states Fire Warriors wear suits of carapace armour. Unless you have another source to contradict this (such as comparing the effectiveness of Fire Warrior armour to another type of Imperial Armour), you have no legs to stand on anymore.
How about literally every book that has tau fighting in it? I guess most recent big thing would be arks of omen but I dont remember many descriptions of fire warriors in there, besides a few getting blown up by orks.
Im saying it doesnt make any sense in lore. Its just numbers used to make the system work.
Look, in this context its again just “carapace armor” as a generally type of armor rather then how strong that armor actually is. I mean the armor is clearly made out of completely different materials, and that’s in the faction lore constantly.
Fact is general faction lore cant really be trusted much, you can interpret stuff however you want, if a tau chest plate can stop a bolter in your head then more power to you. But thats clearly not how its shown to work generally. They get shot in the chest with a lasgun or ork gun or whatever else and die.
Anyways. This is all up to personal interpretation, if you want to think tau are that strong then go ahead, it just doesn’t line up with how they are generally shown to work. So if they were added here, for balance and based on general depictions of tau, there is no chance they would be full body carapace.
Just to close this out, because I really don’t care anymore. Its up to personal interpretation, I have personally read a lot of books and watched basically every animation. I personally don’t see tau as being that strong, because they just aren’t shown to be that strong ever.
Tau armor in RPGs is generally shown to be similar to carapace or weaker, depends on the edition and source book you use. But then again what is considered carapace and how strong it is, is very variable as shown in darktide itself. Honestly the whole word is meaningless and a bit stupid, but its just stuck around and it can generally be used to describe a million different things, like again deathwatch has heretics with “carapace” armor that’s rating 5 or lower, and I mean they say flak and carapace are the same weight lmao.
What I am saying is its inconsistent, but if you look at the general powerscaling in stories, they just arent shown to be that strong, so if they were ported into here I doubt the devs would be like “ah yes tau, yes they shall all be mini crushers” that just wouldn’t happen, completely absurd.
So go enjoy whatever your personal interpretation is, it doesn’t need to line up with mine.
Look, in this context its again just “carapace armor” as a generally type of armor rather then how strong that armor actually is. I mean the armor is clearly made out of completely different materials, and that’s in the faction lore constantly.
And? The protective capabilities are still roughly equivalent. Just like with mesh armour and flak. Different materials, roughly equivalent protection on the typical suit.
It really isn’t up to interpretation. You just don’t want to admit you are wrong. That’s like saying “actually, Bolters can be as strong as Lasguns if you interpret it that way” which, no, that’s a malicious reading of the lore and plainly untrue.
No. Again. Read any book with tau. Tau armor is better then flak, not as good as scions generally. And again, what is considered carapace in game is very variable and more based on vibe and balance. Hence no chance tau would get the in game armor class of carpace, as in game carpace is way stronger then most things called carapace are. Carapace in game completely blocks lasguns and most guns really, that is not something tau armor is capable of.
If you personally think a random tau soldier has armor as tough as crushers in game then go ahead. But thats not how they would be implimented.
Do they contradict each other on this particular topic “carapace vs flak”?
They don’t. You are literaly doing “my headcanon is right, GW codexes are wrong”.
There is a clear hierarchy GW codexes > other rulebooks > BL literature
I never said anything about Tau. Not even saying they will not add something that will ask a shittones of animations, models and voiclines. The most realistic to expect is genestealer cults, and even then, FS can’t add V2 enemey equivalents to DT for 2 years already.
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