Im just saying flak armor clearly isnt made out of fabric anymore. What is flak and carapace made out of? Who knows. Maybe ask the emperor or something idc. As its shown in most litarature and art? Solid plasteel probably.
Are there different grades of plasteel? What bullets can flak armor or carpace stop? Who knows, no one does. There are no actual specifics on this, and the specifics that exist are very old and either seem dumb or seem to contradict the litarature.
There is no hierarchy of lore here, were not talking about like star wars legends where there is a actual lore hierarchy and people who actually take care of and manage the lore. The lore is whatever you or the writer writing a book wants it to be.
Go ahead, belive whatever you want to belive. If you think flak armor is made out of fabric you can do that, I dont care. That doesnt line up with any book written in the last 20 years but whatever.
Imperial Armour Volume Three - The Taros Campaign, pp. 80
Codex: Tau Empire (6th Edition), pg. 70
Read those and then come back, because you are completely incorrect.
If you personally think a random tau soldier has armor as tough as crushers in game then go ahead. But thats not how they would be implimented.
So the only reason Crushers are so tough is because they wear Carapace armour? Not because theyâre Ogryn, not because theyâre Nurgle worshippers, no, just because they wear Carapace?
Yes. Reapers die to anything very easily. Crushers are only a challenge because of carpace.
Oh Im sorry in some books their armor blocks lasguns. Yeah? So does flak armor. I mean 100% always blocks las guns and they are literally immune to lasguns and bullets. Obviously not, they die from lasguns and ork guns and whatever else all the time.
Oh yeah flak armor is super flexible 100% all the time. Totally not a solid sheet of metal that never flexes in any way in any modern depiction totally. Dude I dont even care anymore, your living in 1987 lol
No, theyâre a challenge because they have 2100 HP on Damnation. Because the one wearing all that armour is an Ogryn. A Fire Warrior would obviously have a much lower health value.
So does flak armor. I mean 100% always blocks las guns and they are literally immune to lasguns and bullets.
Ask any Only War RPG player if Fire Warriors are 100% immune to lasgun shots.
I have literally DMed only war and similar systems for 6 years. I stopped for the last 4 because they are honestly kinda bad systems but still. Tau die to lasguns
Yeah the health pool is irrelivant, again reapers die much faster and way easier and die from any gun. Crushers are only a challenge because of crapace, carpace more then halfs the damage of your weapons if your weapons deal any damage at all. If crushers didnât have carapace they would be fodder.
Look tau would not get crapace if added to this game. Simple, 0% chance their armor would be classified as carapace, they are just never shown to be that tough in media. Honestly if they added heretic scions they probably also wouldnât get carapace, because carpace is very OP in game. Thats all this conversation has ever been about.
Look tau would not get crapace if added to this game. Simple, 0% chance their armor would be classified as carapace, they are just never shown to be that tough in media. Honestly if they added heretic scions they probably also wouldnât get carapace, because carpace is very OP in game. Thats all this conversation has ever been about.
Theyâd wear Carapace, but would have the HP value of a regular Shooter.
Crushers are tough because they wear Carapace, on top of a 2100 HP health pool.
If you take a blessing that ignores armor, like Uncanny Strike, then Reapers actually become tougher, because they have more health at 3700 HP.
A Shooter has 300 Health on Damnation.
An enemy wearing Carapace and having 300 Health is not tanky at all. A single Infantry Lasgun headshot crit does 150 to Carapace. A Laspistol does 100. Theyâd be tougher, but still die easily because of the low HP.
No they would just have flak or some new classification of armor. Tau armor is never shown to be as tough as carapace in this game is. This isnt up for discussion, making tau take two headshot crits to kill a random rifleman would be absurd not just from balance but also from the lore side of things.
Yeah two headshot crits to kill a random rifleman totally isnt super tanky at all. Need I remind you thats how many headshot crits it takes for a infantry lasgun to kill a scab gunner? Yeah turning standard enemies that are not shown to be super tough in lore into default elites totally isnt OP at all. That would be such a good idea.
Just no, tau would not get the in game carapace, that would be absurd.
Yeah sure dude. Tau armor is totally so awesome that it can completely negate lasgun shots 100%. Lets ignore tau constantly dying to lasguns shots.
Look you came in and said âoh if tau were added they would have carapaceâ, and no they just wouldnt in this game. It would be extremely unbalanced and not even reflect lore that well, carapace in game isnt carapace in lore, carapace in lore doesnt even completely negate lasgun shots like it does in game, and tau armor definitely doesnât completely negate lasgun shots.
I mean steel is a flexible metal. So yeah, fabric and flexible metal when you talk about armor may imply kevlar and steel alike materials. Not silk and aluminium.
Sure. And you are living in your headcanon, cause donât like GW verison of flak being an equivalent of modern day armor, and cause you canât admit being wrong it seems.
However if you can bring any fresh source that claims carapace isnât made of better materials than flak, i will admit i was wrong.
Oh yeah, so what is none flexible metal then? Please tell me. Calling something flexible implies there is a none flexible kind. Basically all metal is flexible so saying something is made out of âflexible metalâ is stupid unless you mean a particularly flexible type of steel.
This obviously means thin flexible metal as a skeleton for fabric, because back in the day flak armor was literally a flak jacket with shoulder pads, the main flak jacket being mostly layered fabric like well vietnam era flak jackets. This is where the name flak armor comes from, and where most of the origional imperial guard stuff comes from. Vietnam gear.
Flak armor in 40k literally predates modern bullet proof armor, so they just copy pasted the description of a at the time modern flak jacket. This description of flak armor being layered fabric with metal reinforcment literally comes from when imperial guard where wearing that.
Modern 40k flak armor is clearly just made out of plasteel. And carapace? Thicker plasteel with some ceramite layers. Hell sometimes you just wear a normal flak chesplate but with more plates across the body and call it carapace, like kasarkin do.
Really still using the name flak is stupid because modern imperial guard armor is not flak armor, it stops lasgun shots sometimes and clearly provides decent chest protection. Flak armor by definition is incapable of stopping bullets, if it could stop bullets it would just be called bullet proof not flak. Flak armor only protects from flak so shrapnel.
Official artwork showing a clearly metal chesplate having stopped some sort of bullet or something:
This isnt head cannon, this is just official art, official models, and every book in the last 10 years. GW stopped giving specifics about stuff around ~2015. You cant find a single dimension or description of material written since then, I think its official policy. So any dimension or number or material composition you see written can just be assumed to not be cannon anymore. That is all outdated old lore, and if you see something written on the wiki it probably comes from a 2008 source or something.
Source: Tell me how long a repulsor is or maybe how much does it weigh? How about a rogal dorn? What caliber is a bolt rifle? How tall is a primaris marine? Tell me any specifics about any model released in the last 10 years.
Cast iron. Flexible metals and materials are those that bend and deform under strain and tension. Cast iron is hard and fragile for example and cracks. So when it says âflexible metalâ it means such type of material that can resist punch without blowing up to pieces.
Unlike ceramic materials. Space marines power armor made of ceramite (wich is some sort of composite material), and itâs often being described how it cracks and crumbles, it doesnât bend and deforms like steel cuirass.
Because carapace means shell, technicaly power armor is also carapace, but noone calls it that, cause materials are different.
Who the hell is going to describe a steel plate as flexible? You cant find me a single human being who would look at a armored steel plate and call that a flexible metal, just because its steel and technically you could bend it if you put a tank on top of it. Flak armor is NOT flexible, no sane human being on earth would look at a flak chestplate and the first descriptive word they can think of is âAh yes flexibleâ. Maybe because that description you quoted is about actual flak armor, the kind from origional rogue trader, that was a flexible flak jacket.
Almost like carapace isnt a armor rating or something. What the hell are you even arguing about?
This is your origional quote that I have been sort of arguing against. And now you just said that âcarapace means shellâ yeah⌠Like my whole argument that carapace doesnt actually mean anything in terms of level of protection?
A flak chestplate is the same as a carapace chestplate at least when it comes to cadians. They arent made out of different materials, they are literally identical chestplates, the only difference is how many more plates you have on your body.
You just quoted old lore that is obviously wrong, and now you have been arguing about this for like 10 posts for no reason. Stop reading the lexicanum/fandom, they are both very outdated. Now stop talking as if I am not familiar with the lore or something, I have been reading 40k books for the last 15 years lol.
Could someone summarize this argument for me? I know nothing about lore and Iâve read a few posts but canât discern what the actual point of contention is. Something about what materials armor types are made of?
What do you mean, you are keep arguing with me cause you thought i said flak is made from fabric like cotton or something.
First you are saying âhuh fabric?â when i said aramid fiber is also a fabric, you switched to âhuh flexible metal what is it evenâ? I said what is flexible metal is, you switched to âhuh who would say itâ
You are just keep switching to
As you said yourself, flak isnât what name should mean. Same for the carapace. Flak and carapace just mean light and heavy armor on GW language.
Aswell as i said this, but you read only half of my posts, or something. The word âcarapaceâ means shell. So on the arts, wich are most of the time depict tabletop minis you see a full armor set. Because on the tabletop you need to visualy destinguish units. But carapace is made from more advanced materials aswell.
It does you can have a CARAPACE helmet and flak vest, just like maulers in Darktide have.
I know what fabric means. Im not sure why you are talking to me like I am a idiot or something. Im just telling you the description you posted is outdated and wrong lore.
There is literally nothing to suggest there is any difference between a kasarkin chestplate, and a standard cadian chestplate. You are using old lore and general descriptions to apply specific distinctions that dont actually exist.
This is literally just invented by darktide. Carapace in game makes no sense since its way stronger and thicker then carpace in lore, and either way carapace is just an armor style, again look at kasarkin.
I dont know what you are even arguing about here. Just stop trying to use the stupid wikis and ancient lore as sources. I was playing the RPGs when those outdated sources were the main lore, I know, I also know plenty about modern armor and whatever else, you dont need to tell me kevlar is fabric Im not 5 years old. But flak armor obviously isnât made out of anything different then carapace, at least not on the most common types of carapace and flak armors (cadian armor).
There is no new lore about anything. Literally GW has stopped writing any specifics about materials, dimensions, anything. I am just saying that kasarkin wear the same chestplates as normal cadians.
