Another thing nobody mentioned is that in Havoc, the standard horde enemies gain a lot of hit mass the higher the Havoc level gets, to a point where a single infested has more hit mass than a Scab Melee. This makes hordes way harder to clear with melee and most ranged horde clear weapons, except of course the Inferno staff that ignores hit mass because of it’s great design.
Basically it makes the gap between Inferno staff and everything else even wider in high level Havoc missions.
I wonder why Fatshark refuse to make more use of ranged damage distance fall-off since weapons that should have it don’t and weapons that don’t make sense to have it do. Especially when there are already nice touches like bolt projectiles ramping up the further they go.
Ranged damage fall-off for flamers probably won’t do all that much (since a good percentage of enemies will just keep rushing you to close the distance), but it would be a start.
i think it’s also notable that for all the epic hardcore bespoke “so hard” modifiers havoc has, it sure is suspiciously missing something that stops dots from dominating the meta
whoever designed havoc modifiers took great care not to impact psyker much if at all
Question tho
Are you denying Inferno will put massive amounts of damage in Havoc, while doing it way more safely and less mechanical input required than other options?
It feels weird to say “all you guys ever present is standing still stacked enemies” when WE (including you) see it every day in H40,
Want me to record a video? I mean I guess I could do that but it’ll just display what we already know, it’s not like “oh we don’t know if Inferno staff is this super OP weapon yet until I see a video” like come on
The alternative is posting vids and there’s 5000000 Inferno staff havoc vids already, you can watch those
In the case of Inferno I believe the numbers are way too high for the effort required. I wanna see Psykers pull those numbers with any other staff, and I also wanna ask once more if there’s any staff or build easier to play for Psyker than Inferno staff
“Why does effort matter” because if you make the easiest weapon also the strongest, people will just use that single one forever. I’ll touch on this forward in the post
I do trust the vast majority of players are aware of this
I know that if an ogryn is playing taunt shield and has less than 50% dmg than the top dmg dealer, that it doesn’t mean they’re playing badly. If I feel like I can breathe and have a lot more space than if I didn’t have said Ogryn, I’m aware he’s doing a good job
Damage is not the defining factor of a build being a problem in my eyes. Scriers Gaze Voidblast is absolutely busted in damage (even if it can’t reach Inferno levels), but it’s not even close to being as safe or as braindead as Inferno
Yes you’re gonna see me mention Inferno being the safest and easiest out of the staves a lot
You kinda said it yourself why Inferno has most dmg. It’s just insane at applying DoT to huge blobs of enemies as well as melting horde better than any melee player (only other ranged builds can rival this)
So what do we do, nerf DoT aplication from the class? Or JUST nerf inferno alone? I think the choice is obvious
Do you not think this is an issue when only 1 singular weapon allows the class to do this?
I don’t think it’s a matter of anyone doing anything wrong, but more of “Inferno doesn’t deserve to do all that”
I know you aren’t asking me, but I play with randoms 99% of the time. The only time I play with a premade is abusing shroudfield and speedrunning back to H40 at the start of each season
And before you ask yes Shroudfield needs to be nerfed too
I actually do this
Games where I don’t allow ultra cheese while choosing to use weapons I rarely use like Crusher on Zealot tend to be the most fun since everyone’s input matter so much more while needing to read the room better
Of course this is not just for Inferno Psykers, this also extends to:
I may allow these only if the players have a low Havoc assignment since they’re trying to rank up, but if it’s someone with a 40 assignment nah
This is an extremely important question, and it actually has many answers
I really wanna expand on this last point. It’s worrying, and I get it, while other classes are a lot more straight forward, getting used to Psyker is already a curve on its own compared to other games as well, but by babying them and giving them something like Inferno, the vast majority will never explore other options, meaning that 19/20 games that have a Psyker, they’ll be using inferno
How does this negatively affect the Game? Well
So why Inferno Staff? Unlike other high meta weapons in the game (Needle gun, Rumbler, DS, Force Greatsword, and a few more), none of them have this much impact on their respective classes than Inferno Staff, and it’ll forever be a whole Psyker problem until it’s addressed
you bought a 40$ videogame to let another player play it for you
Wow, I get the feeling you really enjoy playing the game. Now I understand why you are so desperate to defend this staff if you have so much fun getting carried and not having to play the game at all. Despite it’s whole damage potential, the flame staff is the most boring weapon you could use in Darktide, as it basically bypasses all interesting game mechanics. I don’t know what it is with people playing hard games in the cheesiest way possible only to pretend like they actually archived something. Same mindset as people who use exploits in PvP games to feel like they are the better player.
Either that, or you’re just here to argue for the sake of arguing and to troll people.
An additional point to bring up with this is that anything and everything that can compete with Inferno Psyker has a cost and/or limitation of some kind. Many, maybe even most, of these costs aren’t as large as they should be, but PBB Ogryn is limited by cooldowns and ammo, Moonlight Greatsword by having to engage in melee for a time, etc.
Inferno Staff is limited by “Hold R for 3 seconds” at most, and even that limit goes out the window while cooldowns are active.
“Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game”
Civilization game-designer, Soren Johnson.
How could this be applicable here, I wonder ??
It’s not just about the damage alone, but also how easy it is to pull off while staying relatively safe. How many enemies is it effective against? It’s effective against almost all enemies, with long range being it’s only real weakness. It has excellent stagger on primary spam, can generate a ton of toughness on kills depending on build, and so on and so forth. It does too many things too well with too few downsides. I played to about 2000 truelevel on my psyker with like 85% of it being bubble-inferno builds (I’m about 3100 level now, with the last 500 levels or so being force greatsword with zero soulblaze talents and no scriers gaze even). I played it before it was recognized as meta. I have played it to death. I usually ran a knife as the melee weapon simply for it’s mobility stats to enable that much more effective kiting. I’ve have played it with warpcharge and I have played it with empowered psionics (a brainburst build-focused bubble-inferno build in H40 even, which works surprisingly well actually).
On the risk/reward scale it’s way out there. You can get close to it’s numbers with other builds that have way more risk and therefore requires considerably more skill and situational awareness from the player. Play a force greatsword psyker without perilous combustion, without venting shriek, and even without scriers gaze. With practice you can still dominate the dmg done on scoreboard, but it requires way more skill investment. Speaking from personal experience, for that reason it also feels way more rewarding when you pull it off.
beside the reduction of cleave and dmg etc. the second step would be to balance the Quell system, since it still make staves spammable and therefore not promoting switches to melee weapons.
hence why many psykers are using and relying constantly 24/7 staves.
quell system was decent during beta because quelling took a while and it was slow.
right now is just simply too way fast considering it’s a weapon with infinite ammo.
secondary weapons should be in fact, secondary, not primary weapons.
this was the real essence and design of tide games btw.
In this game, literally most of the weapons are so bad that you can’t even pick them up. Maybe you could focus your efforts on spamming requests to buff them? And finally, leave Inferno Staff alone.
The staff is a psyker’s primary weapon. And three out of four staffs only let you make four attacks before you blow your own head off. And yes, those three staffs were destroyed by people like this, who keep asking for every single pixel to be toned down
Please don’t confuse the developer’s laziness with your own reluctance to use your head.
You’re weak
Maybe use yours and accept that this is a HYBRID combat game. Meaning you have to use your melee as well instead of spamming flame staff while your last remaining 2 brain cells atrophy
My main class is melee. But I can see why some people enjoy playing ranged classes.
List the weak weapons, go ahead.
I can bet I can find a h40 video with those weapons in the post skitarii patch.
And again, asking for more powercreep…
The majority of the weapons is actually quite good and usable. Some still need buffs, like Heavy Sword for instance, and some need a nerf. What’s the point of buffing everything if Fatshark has to spam enemies to a point where the game can’t handle it again?
