I suck as ogryn on Heresy+, need advice on how to get better

[unbaraki]

Bottom of this comment starting as How I play Ogryn on Damnation difficulty: is a part of my another post about thought and buff/tweak feedback for Ogryn. Maybe it’ll help.

The thing I didn’t mentioned in that post was You need Vet user or Vet bot for this, since Rumbler’s superiority comes from the fact that you can regenerate ammo from Vet. But there can be 3 zealots other than you, which makes you dedicated special sniper… sometimes.

Bull cleaver with toughness blessing is superior in the most case since surviving is the most important thing, and it has good attack speed to farm toughness. The other weapons have lower damage to horde or just doesn’t have enough attack speed.

If you don’t have such blessing Cleaver, just use any other weapon with toughness blessing. The other weapons have low survival ability, but they have niche role. But don’t use Bully Club if you are not prepared, it’s hard to use.

And in ideal situation, you shouldn’t charge to Shooters when horde is incoming, you push, shoot Rumbler to them (close to Shotgunner if you can), so make room for your Zealot. But the thing is Every situation can’t be ideal. In your team, maybe there’s no vet, and your team are bad at killing specials, and shooters, that makes you charge. And When you charge, there’s some circumstance Ogryn can’t survive and Zealot can. Something like 3 shotgunners hide behind obstacles and they don’t get stunned by your Rumbler or your ult, 1 shot of shotgunner blows most of your toughness away (almost 100 damage), If you loose your health, then you got stunned, immediately get you in dire situation.

And I think I should mention that Ogryn has the worst bug in this time.

• Ult : Only cleaver can have attack speed buff (maybe shovel too, but I can’t feel it).

• ‘HeavyWeight’: applied to Ranged too now (which is benefit)

• ‘Raging bull’: damage buff only applies to a first target of your attack, when buff applies, then next attack doesn’t have damage buff. (so normal damage → buffed damage → normal damage → buffed damage)

• ‘Bull gore’: 2 stacks damage is small when targets doesn’t suffer from bleed already, and it doesn’t persist long unlike normal 2 stacks. So you need to attack with heavy, then ‘bull gore’ for Bleed stack.

• Some of Cleaver animation can’t be canceled unlike some weapons, and PowerMaul’s push has some stunlock for a while, so you can’t push, and overhead light immediately.

---

How I play Ogryn on Damnation difficulty:
First I’ll talk how I play Ogryn on Damnation difficulty, this guide can give some idea that Lynchpin is actually good to Ogryn (I think many Ogryn users know it already though), and introduce Rumbler’s benefit to you.

Feats 113(or 1)233

Equipment

• Bull cleaver - The gear with Momentum blessing or/and Confident strike blessing (toughness regeneration blessings) and Savage Sweep, or Slaughterer blessing for more damage is just good to go. I am personally using Momentum + Savage sweep.I didn’t test Slaughterer blessing can reach some breakpoint, since I don’t have good Bull Cleaver with it, but from my calculation, you can reach some breakpoint.80% damage, and 79% first target make your first, second light attack have 184 damage, with 12.5% Slaughterer 5 stacks (2nd best blessing value), you can reach 299 damage, it’s 1 damage less to kill Poxwalker (infested trash) with perk you can reach horde breakpoint.
• Rumbler - Arguably the best cc weapon in this game. For CC purpose, any blessing works, but Shattering impact + any blessing without Pierce would be good. You can compare this weapon to the best CC weapon in this game, Surge staff.Surge staff can stun specials, and elites, but it has limited target number, chain lightning can be random (as far as I know it doesn’t prioritize elites). Rumbler has wider range, so you can knock down elites with horde easily, Elites won’t knock down if they are far from epicenter of blast, but most of time it make them stagger anyway. So it’s arguably better when horde + elites situation than Surge staff. It has delayed detonation, so it’s risky sometimes to depend your teammate with stagger just in time, so you should be careful to detect Ragers and elites fast. And you should calculate their speed and your grenade detonation time to stagger them properly.Use your ult to Ragers that lunging at your teammates if Ragers are too close to your teammates, then shoot Rumbler,Also this is 1 of 2 weapons that you can kill shooters one shot on Damnation difficulty with direct shoot and detonation. The other one is Grenadier Gauntlet.

Tactic

• Stay behind generally for not blocking LOS of your team unless horde comes, normally shooting Rumbler or do some rear guard stuff for your team.
• Before getting into room, or site, you shoot Rumbler at shooters, gunners, and shotgunners just like your ranged teammates.
  Sometimes support your charging Zealot by knocking down & staggering shooter groups with your Rumbler then charge together with your Zealot if there’s no dangerous enemies around your team.
• Ambush or horde situation, spamming your Rumbler to knock down Ragers, Bulwarks, and Crushers, and make some space for your team with arguably the greatest cleave melee weapons you got. Be ware of your teammates LOS.
• Killing & supporting to kill specials with your Rumbler sniping when you hear something.
• In events (defending until elevator comes or something), shoot shooters, and specials if there are no bunch of elites coming to your team.
• Shoot more, charge less.

[Forsion]

if you want to use power maul, i recommend you to try ripper mkII. its damage potential will help you deal with ranged enemies and elites, even on your own, but still be able to stagger them in more efficient way.
ripper will not just send enemies flying across the room in different directions, it will pin them down where they stand by soft stagger first and then throw them back on the ground while keeping them in LOS and grouped up.
it’s easier for you and for your team to deal with enemies that way i think.

thing that you can do better than any other class is controlling large numbers of elites.
and power maul is very good at that i think.
that’s why i recommend you to increase killing potential of the rest of your kit, in any way you want.

[unbaraki]

You can open Bulwark’s defence with shovel (probably bug)

You shouldn’t aim high for this

Aim lower.

And you can leave grenade behind Bulwark by shooting Rumbler to the ground, if you are skillful, it can knockdown Bulwarks. Remember Bulwark is actually fast, so you should shot Rumbler careflly if Bulwarks coming from some distance. If they are close to use their attack, it’s easier to knock them down because of delay after their attack (or while attacking).

[Zoralink]

I honestly haven’t really messed with the maul much, the game hasn’t given me a decent one (Like… less than 315 base stats or sub 40% damage rolls on the ones it’s given me, also been playing my zealot more because the servers have been imploding all weekend and zealot is less punishing when it decides to screw me over mid horde or some such).

From what little I’ve messed with it, it seems… okay? One big thing to note right now is that it’s bugged and not getting the attack speed from your charge which is gross. It would also depend on your ranged weapon as having even more stagger on your melee at the expense of damage is kind of redundant. I could see it being decently strong as a tanky option because of the kinda meh whappy slappy damage on its follow up lights, as you’ll be smacking around things a lot rather than… actually killing them.

Buuuuuut that also leads to why I’m kinda “eh” on it, it takes way more hits than I like to deal with trash mobs. Knocking things around too much can be a negative as you force your team to have to clean up the mobs you’re knocking every which way, or you have to then chase them around yourself rather than focusing on something else. It’s an anti elite weapon with an anti horde moveset and sub par damage (To be honest it feels like I’m hitting things with a giant pool noodle). It’s awkward. Its special also works directly counter to confident strike which makes me sad.

I’d definitely still consider the cleaver way superior from what I can tell of it, as you should be able to compensate for times there’s more than you can uppercut/control with charges/shoves with a single grenade from a gauntlet/rumbler. You might be able to make it work but I really see no real reason for it as it stands. It doesn’t bring much to the table on the whole. (Outside of the joy of batting enemies into the air with the lights)

[Silvah]

My BOOLY build

This is what I use on Damnation and it works fine. The most important thing to understand as a Ogryn is that you need to control alot of engagements. This means understanding the mechanics of the game especially Suppression.

The more you are in melee with a bunch of ranged shooters the more likely they are to not shoot the rest of your team. Obviously there are times when the ripper gun gets the job done instead but generally speaking you want to be able to get up into the face of those scab/dreg shooters ASAP if allowed and possible.

Also the Bully club it is essentially mandatory to have FLAK/UNARMORED on is as it gives you the breakpoint of one shotting pretty much all the normal scabs/dregs with one charged attack from your club. So you can literally charge in, one shot, slide to the next one and one shot and every time you kill someone like this with your club you will get that 20% toughness from your first tier feat.

Whenever your team gets pinned down, it’s your job to break them out of it. So sometimes it’s worth to actually hide just for a moment if possible to get your charge back up and when it’s ready just go ham. Charge right into the shooters and cause chaos. Because when you do this you enable your friends to also peek and and start killing stuff.
Also it really helps if you have a good Zealot on your side. The general rule of thumb I use is simply:
If the zealot charges in, I charge in. If I charge in, the Zealot charges in
Because it’ better to have 2 people at the front distrupting the enemies so they cannot shoot but are forced into melee.

Final tier for Ogryn is pretty much obvious for me but not for many others. Unstoppable is a MUST PICK as this gives you the much needed range to actually close the gab on those shooters that are cowarding far away. Also it really enables you to become much more reckless as you can just charge out of any situation you might get yourself caught in since only monsters can block you.

Bleed feats for Ogryn feel kinda week imo. Don’t go with them. You could use the one with damage reduction if someone in your team has alot of bleeds but otherwise it’s bad. The 100% increased toughness while below 25% hp makes your 20% toughness on heavy hit go to 40% on heavy hit. Also it buffs momentum/confident strikes.

But it’s tricky to play Ogryn on higher level. You just have to try it out. But my general advice is simply:
It’s better to put yourself in harms way if you trust that your team will help clear the chaos you create for them.

[Icemount]

Agree on the points 2-5.
As for shield you need to know that you are doing. It definitely is not a “hot garbage”, especailly on T4-T5.
You can easily take aggro of ranged enemies with your firearm and then just withstand it untill it is cleared. The same with advancing into 4 shotgunner’s for example. Giving your team couple of seconds of relief is very underappreciated, but that is enough time to reaload heavier weapons, throw a nade and gain back some toughness.
I find all Ogryn melee weapons very useful, for different things of course.
Power maul is my favorite atm, I just like them flying, what can I say

[MellowTed]

What perks and blessings do you have or want to have on your gear? For my current most efficient setup I have (insert spending a good minute with PrintScreen and Paint, I’d use that build website but don’t want to spend time there and learn I can’t see my own build AGAIN):

My weapons seem to be pretty good perk and blessing-wise, could use higher main stats. Curios… dunno, many people go all-in on toughness and I can see why, but it’s a work in progress.

[Ashreon]

I shall put it as simple as I can.

Stop playing Ogryn, start playing Zealot. You may thank me later.

[dannylew8299]

I run Bull Butcher with confident strike and Rumbler.

I also have + hp on all of my curios instead of the +hp/toughness/wounds split. It’s not meta, but it is a ton of HP

Honestly, may playstyle is mostly shooting grenades at everything. Specifically when gunners start clumping up and taking cover, as that will kill me more than anything else. Try a fancy trickshot to get them staggered. It’s fun to shoot hordes with Rumbler, but I’m mostly trying to clear chaff to reveal any ragers.

I used to think my purpose was to immediately engage ranged mobs. But, for one, they’ll continue to shoot at you in melee and ranged attacks do WAY more damage than it should to Ogryn. So that was getting me killed every time. Unless I have a squaddie with me, the only time I dive in on shooters is if they’re out in the open and close enough to get to.

Note, with cleaver and rumbler i cant do much to crushers or groups of bulwarks so i do lots of pushing, lots of punches, sometimes box, and also shooting lots of grenades until someone else takes them out.

I will say i feel like the best anti armor weapon Ogryn has is the grenadier gauntlet, the special attack is especially good and should be abused more often.

[JanZamoysky]

This is basically me: a cleaver (occasioanlly a 1h club/power maul) and Rumbler. Heavy stubber isn’t bad either, but rumbler is great at suppressing ranged fire and killing some specials, staggering gunners/elites. Also thanks to the veteran’s passives, you often barely need any ammo.

I would not rush mindlessly into open spaces, even with lots of toughness you get shredded quickly if ranged enemies are still up. Pick a corner, so you can break the line of sight of enemies and pull them in with Rumbler.

Ogryn canbe rather frustrating to play on Heresy+ if your team doesn’t work together. The biggest threat to you tend to be spread out trash ranged unites as you struggle to shut them down by yourself.

[Revy]

Most people try to play Ogryn like a can opener, and try and rush into situations to disrupt enemy formations. This, typically goes poorly. On Heresy+ especially the Ogryn really feels like a support class. When using a heavy stubber your main priority should be support / suppressive fire. You want to move slowly with the team, not be out in front or lagging behind, staying in tight coherency with your Vet or Psyker, to peel stuff off of them in melee and CC with your power maul, or lob a barrage of bullets downrange to force enemy heads down, is how to get the most out of your current set up.

[Floki]

Having completed all missions on Damnation on my Ogryn I’ll give you a run down of the build I use, which is very similar to Dakka1212’s build. It is a bleed build.

My first trait I use is (3) Best Form of Defense - When I hit multiple targets with a heavy attack I regain toughness. This allows me to be virtually unkillable in a horde, even if I’m getting shot at, my only worry in a horde at this point are specials. Horde’s are essentially my saving grace, especially if there’s a pack of gunners up ahead, because I can supplement toughness loss with the horde.

My second trait is (3) Blood & Thunder, heavy attacks bleed, since I’m using heavy attacks to constantly regen my toughness, I might as well have them inflict bleed, this turns out to work well on unyielding enemies such as bulwarks and reapers, several stacks of bleed and they go down fast, don’t even have to hit their flesh, can just smack their shield and it’ll apply the bleedstacks and take them down super quick, very useful especially if you got a bulwark mixed in with a horde and your team can’t quite get an angle or opportunity to kill them. The chip damage the bleed does also is pretty useful for your other teammates as they can easily just finish off the practically dead enemies that are sprawled out on the floor trying to get up from your heavy attack sweeps. Bleed will also play a vital role in another trait down the line.

My third trait is (3) Towering Presence, 20% extra cohesion radius, I personally like to charge in, stay ahead and pull most attention onto myself, giving my team opportunity to selectively target high value threats. But to do so I need all the toughness regen I can get, staying in cohesion is important, so I tend to use this perk.

My forth trait is (1) Bloodthirst - Since I’m using heavy attacks to bleed things, I’ll always have damage resistance and it’ll make me even tougher to take down, so if I ever do need to soak up some hits just to take out a special or something, I’ll take the hits and immediately go back to heavy sweeping.

My fifth trait is (1) Payback Time - I’m a big lad, I’m bound to get hit from time to time, and when I do, I’ll swing back even harder. This is especially nice when those damn shooters volley at me. Letting me kill them even faster, and it’ll help me clean up hordes a lot quicker too.

And finally my sixth trait (3) Non-Stop Violence - If I ever need to top off my toughness this is the panic button I use. Be it an annoying flamer who has just melted my toughness to 0, I can charge through a horde or a collection of enemies to regain my toughness, or a giant patrol of gunners who manage to get an accurate volley on me, this’ll not only let me close the distance, but as I knock them all over I regain most of my toughness back, and can start regaining more by heavy swinging on them.

With all those traits explained, I’ll talk about the weapons I use now. Despite the contrarians saying the shield is a ‘noob trap’ that couldn’t be further from the truth. The attack pattern I typically use with it, is light attack, heavy, rinse and repeat. This’ll sweep all the enemies to the left like a broom. Entire hordes being shuffled to the side like the filthy heretics they are, they then essentially become stuck there until they die. Given the Ogryn’s size, his ability to sweep giant crowds buys you and your team a lot of space, giving them the opportunity to prioritize high value targets. Using the combo and dragging with it, can let you hit A LOT of enemies. That’s a lot of bleed and a lot of stagger. The light hit is to actually dish out some killing blows and to immediately go into your biggest CC, aside from your ultimate.

As for my secondary weapon, I prefer the grenade gauntlet with high pen blast, blast damage, and blast radius. If my team struggles to deal with specials, at the very least I can do it as well, while not suffering ridiculously due to all my damage resistance and CC’s I can dish out.

As far as my curio’s go, as much as I’d like to stack toughness, I stack health instead, 20% and 5% on each Curio. Since our base health is 300, this’ll make a HUGE difference, that’s 75% HP increase on 300HP. Some may deem it as overkill, but why not, it’s a huge boon. Even with 2 grims, I’ll still be above the base 300HP an Ogryn has. I also priortize things like revive speed - the moment I see a teammate go down, I’ll charge in, hold block and start picking them up, faster they are up the better.

When I first linked up with my regular squad they got extremely worried about me using the shield, they said ’ oh no ’ because they were under the impression that all shield ogryns do is click their special and just stand there, with their shield up. This is a huge mistake and wasted potential - the only times I really see myself holding up my shield is under 3 circumstances. Circumstance one, the area is so open, and the gunners are completely spread out. If I find it difficult to close in via sprinting in, using my ult, and dashing side to side like a madman to kill the gunners, I’ll instead opt to push in ahead, get the attention of these gunners and pull my shield up. This’ll give my team time to suppress and kill a few of them. Once I deem it is relatively safe to close the distance, I’ll start moving again, by no means will I stay stationary for too long though, just a few moments and then back to moving those lumberfeet. The second circumstance is if the plague ogryn boss fight is getting hairy. Sometimes a horde and a massive number of specials can get intermixed in your boss fight, and when this happens and say we are a teammate down or something or we are getting swarmed and seperated, I’ll inform my team ‘I’ll hold his attention’, while they focus on eliminating the other threats, at this point I’ll go to a corner with the plague ogryn’s attention, and play with him for a while, if it gets to the point where I need to just turtle up, I’ll do that, but typically if you know the plague ogryns move set, you can dodge, attack, block his attacks, but if you get cornered or something you have the fallback of turtling up, once the team is done cleaning up the others they can safely dispose the boss with you. The third circumstance was to aid my team in their penances.

[MellowTed]

@dannylew8299

I run Bull Butcher with confident strike and Rumbler.

Ditto.

@dannylew8299

may playstyle is mostly shooting grenades at everything.

Ditto. I don’t like it but the game often forces me to play it like a goddamn cover shooter.

@dannylew8299

i feel like the best anti armor weapon Ogryn has is the grenadier gauntlet

It is one of the two reasons why I still can’t decide whether to main Rumbler or GG. The other is GG’s larger magazine vs Rumbler’s area of effect.

[shinon]

On Heresy or Damnation, I prefer these Feats:

Best Form of Defense, Blood and Thunder, Bloodthirst, and Knife Through Butter all work together wonderfully. You’re gonna be holding back lots of hordes and potentially have some armored units in the mix, so gaining toughness while doing max cleave and the bleeds providing you with 50% dmg reduction is nice synergy. Then I also prefer Towering Presence and Nonstop Violence, as nothing else in those tiers really compares.

Stubber I find the best all-rounder weapon since it can help shred hordes, push back maniacs and flak-armored, has good ammo capacity, and since the 30% buff does decent dmg too. The grenade launchers are decent too, but the small clip size and long reload means you can easily get caught out. You can go with the Power Maul now to offset the lack of punch against carapace armored opponents bc the special attack staggers them instantly and has a lot more impact overall. Even better than the Bully Club. It has a little less Stamina bonus than the Bully Club, but more than makes up for that by being more aggressive. It also swings faster or just as fast, somehow.

As for Curios: Health is our highest stat, so the biggest boost is from +Health. All 3 being Health is fine, but you may want to run 1 Wound curio to offset the reduction, especially if attempting grims. Block efficiency is useful, as well as one having some Sniper resist can help take the edge off getting nipped by them if multiple spawn. Corruption resist is nice as well.

[shinon]

The “invincible” build will get nerfed sooner rather than later. It’s clearly overtuned.

[dannylew8299]

@MellowTed

Ditto. I don’t like it but the game often forces me to play it like a goddamn cover shooter.

tell me about it.

@MellowTed

It is one of the two reasons why I still can’t decide whether to main Rumbler or GG. The other is GG’s larger magazine vs Rumbler’s area of effect.

No wrong answer, imo. Rumbler clears crowds, GG has elite damage, both offer CC. If you see an elite surrounded by stuff and you need all of it gone, both weapons will kill one or the other and stagger the rest. If you see a teammate swarmed and in danger, both weapons will knock things down around them. Just only right answers when using these.

[Zoralink]

(You can hit your Win key + shift + S to clip only certain parts of your screen and then ctrl + V to paste it, much easier than using paint)

That looks like a solid setup to me (Except that first curio, it kinda hurts my soul, mutant/bomber damage resistance is kind of a dead stat), your rumbler is actually better than mine, same for your curios, I can’t be bothered to specifically farm for crafting materials so I just fish for higher base stat weapons/curios and try upgrading them. (Very exciting endgame, much wow) Just been using the below rumbler in the interim, haven’t really been over stressed about getting another blessing (And with my luck it’ll just get Blaze Away or something) as my materials get dumped into trying to get less crap curios:

Personally I prefer having both momentum/confident strike on my cleaver but there’s an argument to be made for slaughterer as well, for sure. I generally prefer survivability most times, as you can generally compensate for lower DPS but can’t compensate for being dead. It’s a bit of mixed bag there though since obviously you need to make sure you also have enough DPS. In terms of perks I’m not sure of any particular breakpoints as it stands (I’m definitely more of a “Play better, not stress stats” person), so honestly unyielding/carapace damage, weakspot damage, or crit damage/chance would be my ideals in terms of pure laziness while increasing effectiveness guaranteed.

I find my two toughness and a health curio strikes the right balance of taking advantage of your increased health pool while also making use of your increased toughness regen from confident strike (and momentum if you have both), that’s more personal preference but I definitely personally prefer having more toughness. In terms of curio stats I’d probably put my personal priority list, in order (For non-primary stats):

Toughness >= Max health > Toughness regen >= Stamina regen > Combat ability regen = Gunner/Sniper damage resistance > Everything else.

Cooldown reduction (Combat ability regen) I wish was a bit higher percentage wise or available as a primary stat but since it’s not it’s just kinda there. Your charge is more of a backup button most of the time rather than something you should be hitting on cooldown so meh. I’ll likely lower sniper damage resistance once they fix them being ninjas and insta sniping you with zero warning.

RNGesus is not my friend outside of my cleaver which got confident strike/momentum and I keep getting curios like this one where I stupidly told myself “Well at least I can reroll the 15% chance of curio as reward”:

Sadness. I only hold onto the ones I have like that one in hopes we can at least blend together curios to upgrade their primary stat since it’s technically considered a blessing.

[MellowTed]

Bought a promising Bull Butcher from the armoury yesterday, already upgraded it once, now… guess now I hope that the other blessing will be a specific single one that I want instead of the other dozen possibilities. Otherwise it will be around 1500 plasteel down the drain until we get the ability to switch blessings. By the Emperor, this crafting system sucks, how could Fatshark make something significantly worse than VT2’s system. It must have been a deliberate choice on their part but it’s an effing bad choice.

[unbaraki]

Is the specific single blessing Savage sweep? Low Cleave damage gives you low cleave target limit. Savage sweep covers that perfectly.

My Cleaver’s light attack can only hit 3 Scab bruisers at once, With Savage sweep, it’s almost unlimited cleave to horde (mixed horde with elites is bad news!)

[MellowTed]

I’m hoping for Confident Strike. I share the sentiment of whoever said this in this thread, you can work with lesser damage but you can’t work with being downed.