Flamer/Bomber/Poxburster/Mutant/Sniper when they encounter the average 3x toughness curio enjoyer and see their massive toughness pool:
Poof. Toughness gone.
Poof. Toughness gone.
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As i understand from your example, stacking toughness regeneration speed not efficient solution anymore? Sorry for off-topic.
On-topic: without Veteran it’s really hard to survive, especialy with melee oriented setup: failed miserably yesterday with 2 ogryns, zealot and psyker with trauma staff. Under sniper pressure on open ground, like corrupted iron Smelter facility.
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Well, no. Toughness regen is still good, but you see… There is this little thing called RNG, maybe you’ve heard of it?
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I think TRegen is the best curio passive, others might not agree. Definitely worth it in all classes.
Not really. Psyker probably had some skill issue or the ogryns/zealot wasn’t up to par to clear space. Even a lot of ogryn weaponry is more than capable of taking out sniper at long range.
Nothing stops you from taking Lasgun or at least agri shotgun on Zealot and they are just as good on Zealot at taking out far-away targets as on Vet.
I agree.
All specials that are dangerous from range, are pretty squishy and can quite easily be killed with pretty much any gun.
Every loadout can quickly deal with them and a veteran is not needed.
Snipers are an exception. Not every loadout can deal with those because the zealot flamer and some ogryn weapons (like the grenade gauntlet) have limited range.
But the psyker in the group could have 1 shot the sniper with brainburst, with any setup.
Yeah there are a very few select weapons that could have a problem with a sniper at long range. I wouldn’t consider GG one of them since, but flamer is def a case.
It’s highly unlikely to have a team composed of load-outs that has no weaponry or ability capable of dealing with them, and in that case, the increased close-range firepower is so high that a bit of area denial isn’t that much of an issue anyway.
I mean seriously the amount of time I had to go charge a sniper with zealot due to incompetent teammates wasn’t a big price for running flamer for me in the past so I don’t really see that being that big of a deal.
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It has a max range of ~35m before the grenade explodes.
Within that range, it is completely fine, but past that, you have to chase snipers or rely on teammates (which should also be fine).
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I agree with this, but not with this:
I prefer 2 vets to 2 psykers (ideally 1-1), but anything more than 2 vets in the team is too fragile.
I’d rather have 3 psykers in the team then 3 vets, but with 0 vets, it feels like a different game in HI-STG.
The ammo and nade spam is only a fraction of the story. The real issue is the overdependence on range combat with trash shooters (not gunners) in Hi-Int games that just slow you down and promote IMO boring play styles (in pubs). How is shooting at standing trash bots interesting to anyone, I’ll never know.
Gasp
Really?
I always thought it was impossible to engage shooters in melee, but I guess I just have to use Aimlabs more to acquire more skill.
Got it.
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I actually phased my reply incredibly poorly, I’m in agreement with you just wanted to push on the shooter angle a bit more. I’ve read too many opinions of the opposite (wrong) on the forums in the past…
I run it at +90% (3 x +30%). It is glorious!
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I’m just begging for ogryn and zealot to have better auras. Zealot’s could be all damage resistance instead of just toughness, ogryn needs something new entirely.
The group I usually play in have been doing Hi-Int STG missions since they came out, and we rarely care about which classes we bring due to having mastered this condition with any composition.
I can understand why you find the Veteran important though. Imo Volley Fire becomes overpowered when a good player can keep it active from start 'till end of clearing a room. Pair this with a Bolter, and the Veteran can quickly switch between taking out shooters and specialists, the latter which there are a lot of in STG.
How important something is depends on how much you need it. If you really need the above things to succeed then Veteran is important. But for a group that doesn’t need it the Veteran is not important. I would still love if Fatshark took a good look at Volley Fire’s duration though, along with some of the more powerful weapons.
Basically, volley fire becomes better, the worse your teammates are.
If they just hang around, not doing much, you get to chain volley fire.
If they actually fight the enemy and clear shooters/elites, you do not get to chain it for a long time.
Ammo regen on Vet is the most overpowered and scalable passive in the game.
There is currently no other way to regenerate ammo outside of pickups.
It scales with how many elites.
Shooting is free.
If you need 2 shots to kill and elite and get 1 back.
You are technically losing one.
But with 3 other team mates, you are actually gaining ammo.
Theorically, but the idea i the same.
Shock troop or Dogs are just ammo piñatas whenever there is a vet.
And this isn’t even going into the overtuned nature of the Vet because I can’t care anymore 
Dying and respawning.
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But you lose all grenades. Also, that’s not nice if someone is trying to do Melk’s “no deaths” contract.
Correct.
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Your point being?
Veteran is the only class that needs ammo to function. Elites and specials are not the only enemies that a veteran should shoot.
Usually, the best way to clear shooters as a veteran, is to shoot them. This consumes ammo.
Zealot and ogryn are both mainly melee classes (both classes can easily deal with shooters by engaging them in melee) and do not usually need a lot of ammo (although some people play them as ranged classes).
Psykers usually use staffs and do not use any ammo at all.
A group with a veteran needs more ammo than a group without a veteran.
The veteran passive produces additional ammo, which offsets the group’s increased ammo consumption and allows the veteran enjoyer to play their class, without having teammates run out of ammo.
What exactly is the problem here?
It is not like ammo is usually a problem in any group that does not have a veteran (unless someone needlessly spams their gun at hordes all the time).