Volley Fire Needs a Rework

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
1

Sharpshooter’s career skill is doing too much for too little, and crucially, doing it too quickly. The speed at which a a veteran can kill is IMOP disproportionate to the number of threats the game throws at you. In order to better spread the duties of heretic slaying more evenly amongst the entire team, I think volley fire needs a rework.

This is of course only a case-study of one, but I’m 300 hours in, and have played each class roughly equally. I enjoy that each career has a unique answer to different threats, but more and more I’m finding that a veteran with a bolter or an auto-gun can simply answer faster than anyone else. If I had a nickel for every time I’ve charged my zealot at a big group of gunners and elites, only then to arrive at a large pile of meat and bolt-shrapnel, I’d be a rich man. Or at least a man with many nickels.

Here’s what I think would help: Remove volley fire’s +50%(!!) bonus damage, add suppression clear/resistance and/or an accuracy bonus, and replace the level 30 feat Sustained Fire’s instant reload with a +25% damage bonus against all targets while volley fire is active. This would give you 3 nicely rounded talents at that level that each synergies well with different weapon archetypes, while also removing the option to put THIRTY bolts down range, half of which deal +50% damage, in roughly 5 seconds, every 25 seconds.

Few enemies of the Imperium can withstand such levels of dakka, and rightly so. One option could be to increase the number of elites that spawn, high intensity levels certainly feel like more of a team effort. But then you’d be balancing difficulty around one career, and the Ogryn’s are already in bi-weekly therapy.

THE EDIT LINE-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good chats so far, It’s been pointed out that I misunderstood how the suppression clear worked on volley fire. I thought it cleared any suppression you currently had on activation, while it in fact makes you suppression immune. When I’m using volley fire I’m too frequently caught up in the meaty thwap of agripinaa rounds into the backside of a bulwark mwah. I concede the accuracy bonus/suppression clear in exchange for the 50% damage is not a good trade, even with +25% damage as a level 30 talent, too much for too little. I don’t want to nerf the veteran, I want to make the veteran more interesting to play. I still think a change is needed, too low TTK against too many things, but I haven’t come up with a good solution, hope the conversation continues.

2

Totally disagree.
The veteran is probably overall the most well rounded class in the game.
Out of the problems there might be with the class, Volley Fire is not one of them.

Volley Fire is not a relevant factor for the outcome of that situation.
A Zealot with a Boltgun can do the same thing.

2 Likes
3

Respect your disagreement to the post.

To the zealot being the same with a bolter, I can’t agree though. Volley fire with the sustained fire perk doubles your shots before reload, and adds +50% damage to half of them. That’s more than doubling the number of mobs you’re killing before a single reload compared to the zealot. The zealot can get armor piercing with an ult, but on a bolter that will only be noticeable against crushers, and still result in less killing potential then an instant fresh magazine with buffed damage every 25 seconds. (The zealot-ult interaction with a flamer or autogun is another can of worms for another post)

Edit - Changed clip to magazine, no one hurt me please

4

If i understand you correctly, pretty much your entire complaint comes from the specific interaction of the Boltgun with this feat.
image

Yet, the change you suggest (removing 50% dmg bonus from the class ability in general), would probably impact Boltguns the least of all the available guns.

5

I try to keep the post brief, the bolter was my go-to example to avoid a lengthy treatise and it’s my favorite weapon on Veteran.

I don’t agree at all, all high RoF weapons will be impacted more than low RoF ones.

6

That is not true.
Against many targets, this change would actually have a more significant impact on slower firing weapons.
Especially for the guns that reach 1 shot breakpoints due to the bonus damage from Volley Fire.

For example, Mk XII Lasguns with good stats can 1 shot most shooters with active Volley Fire, thanks to the damage bonus. Without the damage bonus, it would take 2 shots for all shooters except the unarmored ones (which would then require nearly max damage + perk and a certain distance to the target to 1 shot). So the Volley Fire nerf would more than double the time on target, when fighting shooters with this weapon.

Boltguns can 1 shot all trash enemies and Snipers, without Volley Fire.

1 Like
7

Maybe choose another target? Can’t seriously ask for nerf just because a class does its thing, that being killing elites (at least with the boltgun).

BTW killing targets in front of a zealot in melee is a pretty ehm… bad move, but it isn’t a balance thing (looking at you ogryns standing in front of everyone in the doorway).

1 Like
8

That’s fair and true, I generalized too much. But we digress, +50% damage has a different impact on each weapon yes, I’m standing by it being too much on average though. What could be done to keep the ability interesting and impactful, while reining it in.

9

I guess this is the danger of hyperbole, I didn’t want to include 0 examples, but by including only one I’ve made it seem like this is the only problem I have. Which is obviously no good reason for a change.

There’s also the argument that loads of veterans are playing off-meta builds that are outright worse than what a psyker or orgryn might bring. This is the nature of the beast, how do you balance something like this to everyone’s liking with so many variables. I just have to go from my own experience, that of a filthy meta-chaser, and point out what I see as overperformance when I see it. But again, I enjoy every class, veteran probably the most if I’m honest. Its hard not to come across as salty that “the other kids have an unfair advantage!”

10

You not even understand nor play the class by every aspect at all.
This is just another ‘‘That other Class makes THE CLASS I PLAY not look like the solo super HERO’’

  • Volley fire already clears suppression.
  • Accuracy bonus comes from another level feat and eats up Vets stamina as a cost for it, that can leave him very vulnerable to melee, where he has to regain it before he can block again.
  • level 30 feat of Sustained Fire’s instant reload is for weapons like the quickdraw revolver, Shotgun and generally low mag weapons.

AND no Veteran with at least a bit of experience, brings a BOLTER to T4 or T5. That thing eats the Teams Ammo resources faster then the Flamer and kills effectively less then 1/3 of its Bullet to Target ratio.

2 Likes
11

I’m pretty convinced that even after the well-deserved DR nerf zealot is still on top as the most powerful class. Maybe the kill feed looks brutal after 4 bleed nades and sustained fire, but it’s nothing compared to the insane damage output and near invincibility the zealot has.

12

Unless I’m mistaken, it is actually 50% weakspot damage, which only increases the bonus damage from hitting weakspots. The bonus damage from weakspots depends on which gun, but increasing it by 50% isn’t actually that significant.

I do kind of agree with you that it is the strongest ult by a margin, but more for the fact it can be chained for 100% uptime. Imagine zealot ult instantly recharging if you got a kill with the charge, which would make it somewhat equivalent.

13

…

A reasonable point. It could grant suppression immunity for its duration instead.

I’m confused… I think adding an accuracy bonus to volley fire by default is one possible way of changing its role from a damage buff to a stability platform. You’re referring to the level 25 perk deadshot which does what you say. This would free that perk slot up for something else.

Ah dang, I missed that part in the tutorial!

Don’t know what to tell you, not my experience at all. I’ve only played damnation since I finished getting my team to 30. And I find the bolter to be extremely ammo efficient unless your mag-dumping into hoards.

14

You are mistaken. It is +50% ranged damage.
image

The weakspot damage bonus comes from the 2nd lvl 30 feat.

2 Likes
15

And by the way the Vet ult is not automatically 100% endless up time. You have to do head shots continuously on a regular moving and covering targets. (Yes they move outside of the Meat Grinder. They also sometimes do some wobbly dobbly head movements or quick sidesteps when at close range). PLUS if you have a Zealot with a Flamer in your team, you will not even manage to hit an Ogryn while you have volley fire on. Because the target is yellow and the Flamer Zealot covers the whole room in yellow flames.

Without the 50% sweet spot bonus dmg, volley fire would be almost useless.

16

You do not have to do headshots necessarily. But depending on the weapon, headshots are important against certain enemies.
The long uptime is generally only really possible with the 2nd lvl 30 feat and only when many shooters are around.
Imo, having a long uptime (as well as the damage bonus) is quite essential against shooters.

Volley fire has a general 50% ranged damage bonus.
But i agree, that volley fire without damage bonus would be pretty trash.

1 Like
17

That’s an excellent point, dampened only slightly by my never having raised it as an issue, nor do I think it’s an issue. Refreshing your ult with kills is a great feature of the ability. I think the low cool down is also a great feature. My problems are listed in the original post.

So my thinking is you’d have 3 routes at level 30:

  • Sutained fire: Still grants 60% toughness. Now grants +25% damage across the board while active. No longer automatically reloads.

  • Counterfire: As-is, possible buff to weak-spot damage so that is the clear winner for precision hits compared to sustained fire, may not be necessary.

  • The bigger they are: As-is, same buff as counterfire if necessary.

That gives you generalist, sniper, and monster slayer archetypes.

On top of the level 30 talent, volley fire would - by default - grant suppression immunity for its duration, and (possibly) increase accuracy. Perhaps better, for whatever percentage of rounds that hit from a magazine you receive a reload time reduction. Just spitballin’ here.

18

As i see it, pretty much all of your problems could be solved by simply reducing the mag capacity of the Boltgun.
That way, the veteran ult would not become hot gargabe.
Although i have to admit, that i do not agree with you regarding there being a problem, warranting a nerf in the first place.

Removing the bonus damage from the veteran ult, would make it garbage.
Bonus damage for weakspot hits only, is too limited and does not have a huge effect on time to kill in many cases (because headshots are more likely to miss and do not allow you to effectively fire at max rate).

19

You’re already suppression-immune and zoom further during Volley Fire (so it clears suppression, prevents it, and between that and the zoom you’ve effectively got an accuracy bonus).

Personally I definitely get the highest win rates on Zealot (followed by Ogryn). When I want to hard-carry Damnation those are the classes I bring.

2 Likes
20

You want to reduce the 15 round mag size of the Boltgun? The one that already got reduced from its default 30 as they normally would have in WH40k standard Bolt gun mags? So even less ammo and a loooong reload?

The thing is, that this whole treat is unneeded and totally biased.
The Point he made here is not made from the perspective of a Veteran player. It is obviously made from the POV of a Zealot.

It is a treat trying to argue that the ‘‘shooter class’’ should not do more shooting dmg then the ‘‘melee class’’ does with its range weapons.
IF we really want to take THAT way of talking about class balance, then maybe it is time to talk about melee power and melee kill potential balance between Zealot and Ogryn. And why the tiny mini shouty can slice and smash almost everything with one strike, while the massive muscle mountain only flings enemies around and lets them stand up again and again instead of killing them by the sheer force of impact.