Hyper-giga density at an all time high

Even skaven are getting into absurd densities when they used to be a lot better about it in the past. Chaos are as rampant as ever.

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MonkaGiga

Well, who needs unit collision(like in any other normal game) when Fatshark implemented this wonderful new invention, the SLOT SYSTEM!!?

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Yea. The slot system was working fairly often for the skaven, but never for chaos. Now it never works for anything, which has completely broken the game in terms of what weapons are useful and the state of the game.

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Oh it does work for all mobs but sometimes it thinks: “There are some slots behind you too bad my bois have to walk through you. AND wouldn’t it be nice to have part of this massive horde behind you so I can feed these slots better.”

But hyper density isn’t a huge issue if you know how to use pushes and dodges. I actually think that hordes would loose the last little bit of challenge they currently are if the slot system would actually work properly.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t like it or collision to work but we would need to get rid of temp hp against them to keep it fun an challenging.
So that’s actually two things I would like to see.

This only works well with certain weapons. And it’s not something that’s supposed to exist to begin with. 50 chaos/rats stacked on each other in the same spot can only be beaten if you can push often enough between attacks. Finesse weapons use half a shield and allow you to regenerate enough stamina in between pushes. A 2h sword in a tight spot is going to get you killed because it’s too slow, can’t cleave 50 rats, and you won’t have enough stamina to push often enough and then attack. Dashing range is also very short. So what it does is break the game by making certain weapons obsolete from an efficiency standpoint. The weapons were designed with the idea that the enemies don’t stack in a massive pile on top of each other, yet they do anyways. So this means either the weapons need to be modified to deal with that or the enemies need to be fixed.

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Generally, non elf 2h weapons are mostly subpar. For Bardin 1h axe grants waaay better mobility, a lot more stamina, faster attack speed and easier headshots and higher crit chance (so pretty much noticeably higher dps) All of this with 1 disadvantage being stagger strenth, but it hits hard enough to stagger Stormvermin and CW’s are easy kills anyway.
Oh and you can block mid attack. With 2h weapons there’s 1 tru advantage, range. And that’s it. IMO Fatshark got weapon balance all wrong.

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I agree that it is strange that dedicated anti horde weapons like 2h sword struggle against hordes while others do not and that’s something that should not happen. I disagree that only Rapier and the Daggers are good every moderate weapon can easily handle it especially with stamina regen.

I think that doing both would be ideal like I already mentioned.

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I don’t agree with that, lots of maps have tight quarters where herds of these mongos just pile through, and push through their friends to pile up on you, also good luck dodging with any 2 hander in the game

Just get a (doll) Sienna with fireball / conflag.

I have definitely noticed that the slot system is working much less in 1.4. It seemed to work pretty well in 1.3 after the beta ended but now it barely applies at all unless there are 5 or less enemies on open flat ground. Any other situation or bigger grouping just turns into a tidal wave that “sloshes” it’s way over the terrain like a liquid and mobs don’t care about standing inside each other. This is especially easy to see with CWs because they are so large.

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Yeah, exactly my point. It rarely works now. Hyper density is so insane now that a lot of weapons are absolutely obsolete because they’ll just get you killed. The game can’t be properly balanced until this is fixed. It’s just one massive pile up. It also takes a lot of the skill away because you have to rely on more gimmicks or cheese instead of being able to skillfully use a melee weapon against enemies(like if you’re cornered). Instead of fighting 2 or 3 chaos warriors in a corner, you may deal with 7 + a horde + shields + specials. That’s anti-fun and broken.

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I agree, I was trying to have a bit of fun and play melee exclusively yesterday, just ignoring the ranged features of the game and without thinning the herd so to speak it was giving me a lot of grief, I can’t tell the number of times I would be walking along, a horde would spawn inside of me and before even making visible animations my block would be insta broken and I would be at half. Like, how are you supposed to do timed blocks when 3-4 rats back are just attacking through all their friends, or like 10-12 rats are occupying the same space. The same issue happened in beta where you would run across a spawn location and 1 slave rat would insta break your block and kill you, only to spread out after you died and surprise it was 100 rats in the same location. This becomes an even bigger issue when ideal “horde clear” weapons like Exe sword have reduced mobility and stam regen, so you pretty much just die when you get tidal waved by enemies.

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Unit collision for a game like this isn’t so great, it’s hard to make it work well and is very resource intensive.

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They could merge the 2 systems together. But i still think that a unit collision system would work better. That way 20 mobs wouldnt be inside each other all times, the distribution of mobs would work even if you are not stationary in a corner (basically the only time slot system actually works). You can still add AI pathing to them, and it would prevent the usual stupid occurences of the slot system.

Oh please this game is anything but well optimised…(After the “optimalizations” I lost friends with high end PCs that couldnt play anymore bc of horrible framerate lags and etc, and I also had to reduce my graphics settings from mid to the lowest ones to get more than 30 fps…) . At this point I would rather trade some resources for a system that actually works, since it seems that FS simply cant optimise the game.

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That was my point lol it’s already poor performance, imagine if they added full unit collision… :cold_face:

I have to run on medium for the FPS to be manageable, which is a bummer since I have a pretty good computer. Can run any other game on ultra settings without issue… at least vermintide still looks pretty great on medium.

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Yea, but they shouldnt use bad game mechanics instead of better existing systems, just because they cant optimise their game… Everyone have seen newer/older games with graphics just like this or even better, running without any problem on higher settings. Its just the matter of the optimalization, which in this case is clearly in an unacceptable state.


Also, some more reasons for unit collision:

  • You are soloing a ratogre for example. An assassin spawns, you cant see it anywhere. Than it jumps on you THROUGH the ogre. Cant see it,tag it, nor react… (happened to me…)
  • Good old grabbing the players from behind the horde and pulling them in…
  • Getting hit by a clanrat that standing inside the shieldvermin that you trying to open up…
  • Waterfall…
  • When the mobs run through you than decide to attack you instead and you simply stuck in one of them…
  • Geting downed by ambushes(20-30 rats in one spot) from just behind the nearest corner 1-2m before/behind you…
  • Getting killed by pleaguemonks as they sneak up on you and 3-4 of them start hitting you from the exact same spot…
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Now I have an idea how it could be faked:
Make them push each other aside. This will cure hyper density and elites inside each other but not specials.

I imagine FS will fail hard at this so here is an overview of bugs:
Enemies get pushed inside you
Enemies get pushed inside walls
Enemies and especially corpses fly all over the place

That would be the dream. All of those listed items are such huge problems.

The only thing I can agree with. Mobs run through you because they aren’t targeting you and then will switch because they decide you’re closer. Mobs spawning in such close vicinity should be altered. It’s either spam attacks at their spawn point or neglect it momentarily and get destroyed by 100 rats pouring out a tiny window, hole, etc. None of which is fun. When enemies climb up or drop down near you and go through making it impossible to land a hit and sometimes preventing you from moving shouldn’t happen - one entity or the other should push the other out of the way.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu