I have to disagree we often had the scenario where most of the player base only have picked OP weapons which can handle everything. If you give single target weapons cleave you would exactly have this scenario again. They just need to be better at doing single target stuff, so that they would be a legit sidegrade pick and not being straight up better.
I hesitate to label popular weapons as ‘overpowered,’ especially given the current balance. In my view, most players gravitate toward versatility because games are played for enjoyment, not as a chore. Weapons that excel in specific areas but struggle in others often get relegated to ‘niche’ picks, as using them can feel like extra effort. Gamers generally prefer gear that can handle most situations, which explains why ‘jack-of-all-trades’ weapons tend to be more popular. Instead of seeing them as OP, we should recognize that they’re favored for their balance between effectiveness and ease of use.
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I see a viable use of 1h axes as super-armour-assassin killers, with some buff to horde clear.
There’s already a buff for WP to take down CW faster, the same thing might work for 1h axes. 1h axe 1-hit hook rats, globadiers, gunners, flame rats. And have a buff vs super armour would put it in a nice niche, with a minor buff to horde clear to give some THP gen without needing to rely on ranged to clear hordes.
Who wouldn’t like to 1hit hook rats at cata with a heavy swing? …cue someone posting vid of onehitting hook rats…
You get the idea, close range special anihilator.
Yeah, if DD can be effective on a Horde with their attack speed and 0 Cleave despite being specialized into assassination, I see no reason why a slight attack speed buff to 1h axe to help it on hordes won’t put it in the same boat.
“Suffer” is a massive overstatement considering Dual Hammers have really effective Heavy attacks and a hidden 4th light attack which lands easy head shots and also comes with decent AP, not to mention the heavies hit twice.
As far as melee weapons go it’s very hard to think of any weapons that truly suffers against heavy armour. Maybe Dual Swords against individual super armoured does, but even then they have the means to snipe their heads with a push attack, or its heavy attacks all having HEAVY LINESMAN.
No particular attack on any 1-h axes are any good against hordes in contrast. Not even a push attack.
Most egregious is Kerilian’s axe post-rework when FS decided to make it’s first two light attacks perfectly horizontal swipes for some reason.
But the point I was initially trying to get at is that pretty much all weapons are all-rounders capable of handling hordes as well as elites. Nearly all other melee can do more than one thing.
The axes suffer a case of this…
They do one job well, but it’s not that well, certainly not well enough to justify its inability to do anything else. It’s got an anti-armour elite killing attack and the same thing but better.
That’s it’s own redundant can of worms that can be discussed in another thread, suffice to say the weapon is questionable as well.
Yeah you’re right, it’s an argument, but it’s NEVER been a reality because you still see some people bring the dual daggers along in lower difficulties and occasional cata.
But the objective fact remains that one of the two weapons in this relationship is very clearly off-balance, either the dual daggers is too weak or SnS is way too good at everything or a bit of both. And people are free to start a thread to discuss that imabalance…in fact I’m considering starting a thread discussing the problem with Mining Pick and it’s relationship to Coghammer.
Well the fact that people also pick axe on lower difficulty and cataclysm and deal with hordes just fine, it seems your entire argument is “I don’t like axe because it’s not as good at hordes as other weapons.” which is fine. You do you, mate.
Dual Daggers isn’t just a slightly faster 1H Axe.
It’s significantly faster, generating more THP & cooldown reduction per second.
Not to mention the high finesse coefficient, bleed, higher dodge range and dodge speed.
Things actually die in one headshot with little to no power investment or two very quick bodyshots. Heavy attacks feel good too use and kill armour just as quick, if not quicker than 1H Axe.
The weapon generally feels far safer and fluid to use.
Elf careers have ways to improve or cover the weaknesses of DD too.
Whether that be assassin, stamina, more dodge, attack speed, crit, safety nets like stealth or an aimbot ult & hagbane.
Suffice to say, DD is more like a lawnmower, closer to Flense Rapier than a 1H Axe.
You’d need to give 1H Axe significant buffs to bring it up to DD level; It wouldn’t feel like a 1H Axe anymore.
The only downside of DD is it’s guaranteed to give your carpal tunnel.
Just repurpose one or two attacks into cleave attacks.
A finesse buff and Light 3 speed/range buffs would be nice too.
Maybe FS could make a new weapon modifier like linesman, increasing cleave on crits.
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I meant for example javelin, old coruscation staff and the beam staff after release.
Good argument.
“I’ve seen people use it, therefore it’s kay”
Pot meet kettle.
So the reality is that axe, “with some people still bringing them along in lower difficulties and occasional cata” is “not Kay” but dual Daggers “with some people still bringing them along in lower difficulties and occasional cata” is not “straight up worse than S&D.”
So which is it. Is dual Daggers straight up worse and needs buffed? Or is axe not a crippled weapon desperately in need of a buff?
Please see this post above:
While they might share being outclassed, there’s still a very significant difference in their power levels. “Making do” with DD vs “making do” with 1h axe are vastly different play experiences.
I don’t think anyone here disagrees that it’s perfectly fine for not every weapon to be a top meta competitor. The point we have been painstakingly trying to get across to you is that in the case of 1h axe, the gap between it and top performers is unreasonably large. Not so with DD.
It’s good for crit resets so you can continue to not use the melee weapon on bh yeah xd
Also, dual daggers is a good weapon, sometimes outclassed by sword and dagger. Elven 1h Axe is outclassed by every weapon so I’d argue that there’s a difference.
I think elven axe is far worse. Bardin and Saltz atleast have overheads on light atacks, not this stupid side sweeps.
So you actually can hit heads with light atack and you can hit exact enemy you want
The second funny fact about 1h axe - heavy deals the same damage as 1h hammer or elven 1h sword. And 1h hammer and sword heavy is faster. And you Can H1 H2 L3 L4 for good anti armor combo with exact damage as 1h axe
If you want armor damage on Elgi - take Glaive or DD
If you want armor damage on Bardin - take 2H axe
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It proves that 1h Axe is horrible. He as HM has same damage and elite kills as FK. It is just a pathetic. May be skill\siuaation difference of course.
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Agree. And i met great Necro player with Crowbill
Look at those stats, crowbill is amazing, you just noobs, just gitgud
The problem is it doesn’t count because it’s an “op Necro build”.
Thats was a joke. He has literally 0 melee kills. I reuploaded the picture for better understanding
It is like griffonfoot BH build. 1h axe is great when you dont use it at all. Otherwise it is garbage
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Gotcha, in the original it was in Russian(?) and I don’t have the scoreboard positions memorized.
I do know there’s a really good perk on Necro that makes Crowbill busted.
And as for the GF BH, if you’re not using the axe at all you’re not playing optimally.
You can change axe to literally any weapon exept may be GS. The only situation where Axe can be noticeably better then any other weapon is CW patrol. And you already has tools to overcome it like potions and bombs
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