OP If you find legendary got easier, than why not just play Legendary by yourself with whites? I am sure that a huge handicap like that will really test your skill.
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Iâve put time and effort getting to 300 item power, there are other ways to make my life miserable in Vermintide 
This, pretty much. I think Hordes became very irrelevant from a combination of factors, some of which are some weapon types, some of which are some weapon/accessory properties, and some of which could be attributed to the fact that everyone and their mother is using a guaranteed Bloodlust proc at level 20. In V1 the occasional poke from a Slave or Clan rat in Cataclysm could make or break a run. In V2, thereâs not only so many ways to prevent such pokes other than raw skill, but itâs also entirely feasible to just bandage up poke after poke from a continual temp-health buffer.
Iâve never really been concerned about a Horde in V2, at least not since learning and playing around boss spawn triggers. But in V1, at the very least, there was always a conscientious decision that needed to be made about where to fight the horde, and how to escape if things went south. Not to say you donât hold up somewhere in V2 and run about wildly, but basically anywhere not out in the open can handle a horde with no problems whatsoever.
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ya thatâs the difference. v1 cata hordes felt beefier. and in v2 we have better weapons like flamethrowers for clearing hordes.
difficulty in pre1.04 legendary was also mostly not that much of a challenge until the point where director dropped everything on you at once.
my group doesnât even use these. the bardin brings a grudgeraker since it can kill specials from a ridiculous range despite being a shotgun, obliterates armor, and mows down a group in a pinch if needed. he can refill his ammo smacking things in melee with it with a scrounger trait. if a pub sienna shows up they were all using beam staff. an elf or sienna with a decent line of sight, aka always if you spend time positioning your team at all when a warning comes up, will mow a horde down on their own. kruber or a dwarf with a hammer and swift slaying just utterly bat things around. saltz crossbow is insane for killing packs as well. itâs not just âyouâre using this powerful classâ when every single character trivializes hordes.
specials are the only thing that made it hard, until enemies get a buff or players get a nerf. enemies getting a buff means that one stray, laggy poke or a chaos unit gliding 500 feet to finish his swing will mean a down on non tank characters, and weâve already seen how people react to their characters getting nerfed. it was a complete cry fest when the ability to delete bosses was removed from the game, as if that EVER had any reason to exist.
yeah I agree that specials were what made it hard but I donât think that should have been the case. I think hordes should be harder to kill at least. And there are a lot of great weapons for clearing hordes, but the unlimited nature of stuff like flamethrow, beamstaves, and even elf with ammo regen would clear hordes while your melee just sat around making sure no single rats got behind them to smack them or to clear specials. Iâd like hordes to be more resistant to ranged maybe so that ranged can focus on specials and elites while melee have more work killing hordes.
Really it just seems like you want a deathwish/mutation difficulty and that will be in game soon enough once there are mods. This is a PvE game, so the truth is that once you âgit gudâ the challenge is just gone. This isnât like a PvP game like a MOBA where players might come up with different tactics to counter you and you have to keep adusting. Whatever difficulty Fatshark throws at you, even Deathwish/Mutation, after hundreds of hours playing it it will be easy to you.
If you want Fatshark to just randomly delete your heroes thatâs the only way really to make a lasting âchallengeâ for you, and thatâs what they stopped doing with this patch.
but thatâs the problem I was getting at. pre 1.04 I didnât think legendary was that hard with a prepared,built,knowledgeable group. It was certainly easier than Champion with randoms who run around everywhere. The âdifficultyâ just came from those ârareâ moments when there wasnât anything you can do, and those wipes didnât feel hard just unfair. this maybe happened once every three or four maps, but thatâs enough to discourage people from playing Legendary at all, especially when cosmetic drops are so rare. It just becomes a âwhy do I even bother, Iâll just go back to championâ.
So the problem with legendary really existed before the 1.04 changes.
Tell me how frequent your wipes were on legendary BEFORE the 1.04 changes. Personally the only wipes I had were due to dumb mistakes like a bad bomb or barrel, teammates running the wrong direction, just a brainfart. It was and still is unforgiving if you make a dumb play. But it wasnât really hard until the director spawned everything on you.
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Agree totally but why not just fix that, instead of nerfing everything down ?
Sounds like exactly what this patch doesâŚdecreased rate of disabler spawns so that the director doesnât spawn everything on you at once.
So I just wanted to make a quick appearance and first off say thank you for all the feedback and discussion and time you put into the game.
Now, just to clarify, we (and specifically I as designer for these kind of things) take this stuff really rather serious. I know a lot of you have poured thousands of hours into the game since V1 and onwards. You guys are a huge part of why weâve spent thousands of hours building it. I do have a tendancy to joke about stuff when I probably shouldnât, sorry about that. I really meant no offense.
Iâve heard all of your feedback. We aimed at removing spammy and onesided experiences from the top difficulties, the game should be varied and challenging.
From what Iâve gathered from the constructive critisism around here, the main complaint seems to be with the roaming (pre-spawned) population and the lack of elites. I do get paranoid that something has borked when I hear descriptions of desolate wastelands barren of all opposition and want to get ontop of that. If you have runs on legend where youâre not facing/finding elites at all or not seeing an hefty increase compared to champion all over the place - please let me know (post a bug or send pm). My bug-sense is tingling, might be confusing it with a lack of sleep but you never know. We will be looking further into the spawning system moving forwards regardless.
Otherwise - I appreciate the discussion. Hordes vs talents vs player empowerment vs rng vs everything else is of interest. We strive to provide a solid experience for many different players of different skillevels, hoping to provide somewhat of a journey for most. Itâs tricky making everyone happy, but Iâm a middle child so itâs kind of what I do⌠And I do want to provide a challenge even for the best of you.
Anyways, keep discussing, keep being awesome!
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that is what they nerfed directly or indirectly. You shouldnât have everything spawned on you anymore. When director decided to delete you it is because the stars aligned and it spammed specials and tons of elites and horde or boss all at once. now you shouldnât have that severe spam or overwhelming armored. that cause that. regardless Iâm sure they have more tuning planned and will listen to feedback but this patch addresses that core complaint of âwelp there was nothing we could do there.â
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difficulty wasnât ânerfedâ it was adjusted to help combat the fact that limited player options were viable in a higher difficulty setting
Maps are empty dude⌠there are barely any enemies on the map. Barely any SVâs or Chaos Marauders⌠I just run straight spamming left click with my sword until the end. âI saw a Rothelm once i think 
â
My anecdotal experience is also a large decrease in ambient/roaming/pre-spawned population on legend, though it might be because an area full of chaos warrs looks very crowded compared to the same amount of small units.
In regards to elites, I agree with what is said but it would also be excellent if you guys put some thought into keeping melee non armor piercing weapons strong at max difficulty, which was an issue in my opinion when the maps were covered in elites.
Thank you for the attention to feedback.
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100% new legend is fine⌠if you intend to bring out a new difficulty because right now⌠I am throwing games out of bordem⌠throwing every oil lamp I can at the 1 enemy that is spawning⌠I have had to stop using gear that is even slightly good to try and keep it enough of a challange for me to want to play⌠going to just start using white gear soon
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Actually no, it doesnât matter how you increase the difficulty players will complain itâs impossible and unreasonable. âspawns are unfairâ, âhp and damage bonuses are unfair and lazy designâ, âsmart AI plays perfectly and is completely unfairâŚnever giving the player a chanceâ, etc etc etc.
There is no way to design difficulty that people will not vilify as wrong, poorly designed, etc. This is because they judge emotionally, if they canât handle it then it must be broken. Canât be them. System must be to blame for at least a significant portion of their losses. Complete lack of personal responsibility and/or humility is the call for 90% of complaints about difficulty. Only in rare cases like the Leech slap and Burbleblungerspark are people on target about actual lack of proper counterplay. And shield rat, not broken or difficultâŚjust poorly designed/balanced atm.
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yeah, i joined an Into The Nest run before steam shut down, it was at the final stretch before the boss. before the update it was full of stormvermin everywhere with gutter runner, packmaster and gunner spawns with the occasional gas rats poking in to cause mayhem. it might have been a bit too much but it was a fun little slog fighting through what felt like the bosses champs guarding him.
it wasâŚquite empty this time. still had some extras spawning, but in way way less numbers. not getting shot/gas bombed through walls was nice i guess. there were way less ambient mobs, especially stormvermin though. there was a horde that spawned but aside from the occasional special, it was very empty. i donât think iâve ever reached skarrik on legend, or even champion, with the whole party topped off, and especially not leaving a medkit behind. some of the players werenât even pulling their weight either, considering i joined right at the end and still ended up above two of them. the poor sienna had her work cut out for her that run apparently.
yikes.
Iâm just going to say <3 <3 <3 <3 to you :). Weâll continue giving feedback, each of us in our own way. Some constructively, some less so lol. Get what sleep you can and thank you for all your hard work. As QA I have some small idea of just how rough a ride yall had through release and after release support. Hope you get a stable break point to rest a bit soon :).
I dont mind there being variation on maps as too how the map plays, one play through should always feel different then the other that is a good thing.
The adjustments to special spawns is perfect I would say, did a few legend heroic deeds and regular legend games and it feels good gameplay wise. Might I say some of the Heroic Deeds on Legendary are actually now more doable then they previously were!
The drop-rate on heroic deeds could maybe use a increase to appease those of use who want more of a challenge now since the patch has adjusted âLegendâ difficulty. Also the reward system for heroic deeds on legendary needs a looking at, no one is going to do a heroic deed that in the end gives you just a soldier/merchant vault.Legendary heroic deeds should reward a Generals or Emperor chest at all times in my opinion because anything less is not worth the effort.
Infantry ambient rats/chaos infantry and elites over all seems to have been reduced from the looks of it which makes certain part of the maps feel empty while other parts seem fine. I dont know if its a bug or just bad rng on the game editors part but we could at least use more cannon fodder throughout the maps whether its more elites or just more packs of clan rats/chaos infantry scattered around.
We shouldnât be able to walk through a long stretch of the map with no challenge put up from the enemy, a moment to catch ones breath is fine, but running through 1/3 of the map with barely any enemies in sight leaves a lot to be desired.
Khorn is very displeased by the lack of blood sacrifices being made in his name! We demand more blood for the blood god! 
Edit: OK this is ridiculous. I did a few more games to confirm⌠you guys pretty much turned Legendary into Champion this is a joke right ? There are rarely any elites let alone enemies on most of the maps. We are pretty much just blowing through the mapâŚplease for the love of god revert it back. You pretty much nerfed Legendary difficulty by over 70% with this patch. Keep the other adjustments to specials but for the love of Sigmar revert the rest, there are barely any elites on the maps anymore.
Just did Righteous Stand and the lack of Storm Vermins or Chaos Knights is really disturbing compared to last night when previously parts of the map had a significant population of themâŚthis is justâŚthis is bad enough for me that I actually do regret at this point purchasing this game if this is what Legendary is going to be.
This is not allright Fatshark!
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