I’ve been whining about it so many times here on the Darktide forum already, but here I go again:
You can free yourself from the ‘Prowler’ alien in “Aliens: Fireteam Elite” if you successfully press the correct buttons in the QTE when pinned by one.
If you fail to push the correct buttons more than once or take too long, you will die.
Teammates can also kill the Prowler on top of you, but the acidic blood will damage you.
Teammates can also melee push the Prowler away from you (like the Pox Hounds in Darktide), which is a safer option but not always easy to do.
To balance the fact that you can free yourself from the ‘Prowler’, it kills you quickly and deals a lot of damage every second it claws at your face, compared to Darktide’s ‘Pox Hounds’, who kills you in annoying slow motion.
I get that you cannot free yourself from the ‘Trapper’, but why wouldn’t you be able to kick the dog off yourself?
Do you mean for all characters in general or just for the Ogyrn? I am ok with the more nimble characters requiring assistance if they mess up but it’s way harder to chain dodge several disablers as Ogyrn so if you fail and have no backup, I am ok spending a wound to get out (makes wound curios competitive as well). But I don’t know how I would feel about adding that mechanic to other classes.
sidenote to some “modifiers” that i “unlocked” recently:
at 46 after 2 high dose chemo/stem cell transplant and due to a false diagnosis from an actual university clinic, I recently was at risk of severely damaging my eyesight.
2 doctors tell you mutually exclusive things and either or is “hell on your eyes”
so amidts recovering from the nice ride that was chemo and side effects from numerous additional medication, I still serve the emprah the best I can.
at least that somewhat still works
any trashtalk about havoc and stuff is no water off my back knowing I do this despite adverse conditions.
that’s a “hardmode” I’d gladly opt out if I could.
I dunno who it is and actually dgaf thats not me crying about ranged builds with main character syndrome. Dude def have a skill issue if he cant able to get kills playing with ranged builds lmao
Sorry but I myself was paired quite a few times with 3 stack Desparado Scum and it was boring af.
As it goes for Index, what he say to you have nothing with main character syndrome, ranged weapons are more tools to deal with ranged enemies and back to melee or extentsion to melee but it newer supose to be main way of play.
Heck there was this whole tantrum over Picpocket “nerf” and for me this talent was useless before and its still useless now.
Not even what’s happening here though, he claimed hive scum shouldn’t be forced to ranged for class fantasy reasons because slayer isn’t forced to ranged for class fantasy reasons
The simple retort is that slayer is in almost all cases depicted as a melee thing so forcing ranged makes no sense, whereas 40k factions and characters other than tau are almost always depicted with melee weapons so it’s reasonable to design them with melee in mind
Just disregarding every retort as “subjective” even though I’m literally making a counterpoint to a point made is idiotic and stifles discussion and kills the point-counterpoint dynamic. In that sense I do agree with you though, people do screech “THAT’S JUST YOUR OPINION!!!” when someone can lay out a rationale they can’t refute
yeah I meant just more that most video game discussion generally is an inherently subjective thing outside of like, math and code.
So I don’t see the value in dismissing something as subjective either way because at the end of the day it doesn’t matter that it’s subjective, the whole point of a forum is for opinion sharing after all (obviously not including stuff that violates Fatshark’s guidelines lol lmao)
good thing dt can be played 100% by using melee which is the most fun thing to do.
ranged gameplay feels kinda off, due to the animations and how it sounds, i dont like the ranged gameplay, never felt fun for me and im vt1/vt2 mentality where ranged most usage would be just for specials/elites at very best
thats why when i see people turning off the game by using purgatus or other things for everything or using 80% ranged of the time its just not fun anymore, when having 3 psykers with 3 inferno staff it gets boring very quick
Is the “really boring minigame” finding and killing an elite in melee? Maybe I’ve played too many really boring auspex minigames but I can’t agree with that sentiment at all. That said I think it would have been more appropriate to kill gunners (big or small) – as it stands I’m pretty sure Reapers are exempt (Bulwarks are, but they don’t have guns)? Ragers give you bullets, though. Logic: Defenestrated!
Saying stuff like this unfortunately sounds exactly like:
Because maybe you feel simply inconvenienced by having to pick an elite’s pocket; I usually feel extra pressure and higher stakes from having to hunt down and coordinate a kill while low on bullets (I didn’t play much Pickpocket pre-nerf, so there will be bias). I think that’s more in-line with the ganger class fantasy of living (and dying!) on a razor’s edge. I understand how Pickpocket feels much worse now with quite a significantly restricted activation criteria (my past, dismissive, comments aside – with apologies), balance considerations aside.
Speaking of class fantasy I think it’s easy to get confused about what’s a class fantasy and what’s a personal fantasy. Honestly if there’s any class that should fantasize about maximum gunplay it’s Veteran. Full shade on FS for that, and my inner gremlin is telling me it was a deliberate sales tactic to give players unlimited ammo for actual real-life dollars and then take it away months later.
Anyways, I feel like elites aren’t a well-defined or logical enough group (again maybe I’m wrong but are Bulwarks/Reapers not elite?) to be a good activation criteria for this ability. I haven’t really touched on it but I also don’t like having to claim/steal specific kills for ability activation either. I don’t mind that it’s a melee kill though, feels accurate for picking pockets and promoting more hybrid gameplay.
I think I’m circling the drain on having more ways to support more ranged gameplay after all
What’s degenerate, is being able to do a 100% ranged (because the enemy can’t pressure you), with the safety of being able to stay outside of enemy range all the time, infinite ammo, and no precise aiming requirement
The Pickpocket rework is barely noticeable running Desperado builds. It procs less because I am not shooting a few bullets into an elite, dipping below 20% and having it top back up over and over again. I get to my last magazine and stab an elite at most 5 times a game. I do pickup ammo but still rarely, especially compared to other classes.
I like what they did with the tree as well. Having to take +5s stimm duration to go into Desperado, surrounding all the nodes around chem dependency with essentially tax nodes unless you’re running blackouts, can’t path nicely from +5% crit aura into Desperado. All indirectly nerf what I think was commonly built. Float Like A Butterfly is easier to snag though so maybe a wash.
Had a difficult time comparatively managing ammo on a crate ranged build, which I don’t mind because I didn’t really run that build that much but also because being able to stimm and then crate is kinda busted. That the ammo requires more than one braincell to manage is fine for these builds. I’d say the outcome was merely good versus deleting the map with a comparable Desperado build.
Also glad the passive needle pistol everything while kiting for infinity playstyle is gone.
Full ranged build already exists, see psyker. Psyker with knife and assail can do the same thing as dual pistols.
If needler too strong, nerf it to the ground. If something else too strong, nerf that.
I just want to go pack to feeling badass sliding around with dual pistol in auric. It can still be done by ammo hogging I guess, but that’s not how I like to play.
I have a thousand hours and had tons of fun with Hive Scum before the nerf, now I’m back playing Zealot and Psyker because the fun/fantasy builds are valid in Auric+. Playing Hive Scum just makes me sad, remembering how much fun it used to be. I don’t want to track/hog ammo, I want to be a lil’ gal or guy zipping around and taking out specialists and panic whenever I see two crushers and don’t have my blitz available.
Was this done because needler OP in havoc 40? Deal with that? Is it because they wipe hordes at range in low-levels? Can’t every class do thay by just picking up ammo?
Playing dual pistol/autopistol just gives me a headache now, because I’m constantly evaluating everyone’s ammo and whether I can have fun blasting or not.
Because pickpocket let you play very ranged heavy with needle pistol effectively with little to no other talent cost. You could be a full Chem/Crate build then just also spam needle pistol.
Full ranged loadout has a bit too much DPS so I imagine the thought was that forcing you to put your guns away here and there would slow that down a bit.
I do appreciate that many people aren’t satisfied with the way Fatshark has addressed this but I admit I struggle to think of a perfect solution. There’s been suggestions to revert the change then move it into a Vultures or Desperado sub node. That way you at least have to commit to a ranged ability/keystone to get it. While that would go a long way to address problem 1, it doesn’t do anything much to address problem 2.
Best I’ve personally come up with is to make it a Vultures sub node and also give it a noticeable -ranged damage debuff (like -15% I dunno what the exact number should be). I think that would all around be better for everyone than the current melee kill implementation but I’d be surprised if that would be a popular alternative.
No, it’s because it was literally unlimited ammo with any ranged at the cost of 1 node. Which is obviously OP within itself & makes the game super brain-dead with a nice little cakewalk. Pickpocket shouldn’t have been unlimited ammo in the first place. It was a poorly designed passive in my view. When you have unlimited ammo with just ranged, you can shoot things at a distance with next to no risk almost in my eyes. Melee combat which is a part of the 40k universe style & should be used at least. If people want a no-holds-barred shooter, they’re other games for that. Besides, it’s still unlimited ammo anyways in the end, you just have to work for it at least… So, there’s that.
I don’t disagree with the “1 node” part, but I will say I do tend to agree with the people who say “why can’t 90% ranged gameplay be a valid playstyle?” Assuming said ranged build operates within reasonable DPS parameters, naturally.
Like using VT2 examples, nobody really has a problem with grudgeraker RV or Longbow WS despite both those builds having the ranged sustain to theoretically shoot basically all game. Why? Well IMO because both those builds have limited ability to deal with different targets despite basically unlimited ammo. Grudgeraker is quite weak into all forms of armour, and longbow lacks the cleave to deal with groups quickly or fend off the horde. This limits their “useful” effective DPS across a range of scenarios.
Uzis Scum, however, can deal with almost everything besides crushers effectively just shooting. And they have some great tools available to still have plenty of options for those regardless.
Even then I think that’s basically fine as long as they don’t get to output as much DPS as higher skill floor DPS builds do. If we put the needle pistol issue aside for a moment, since I think it’s the easiest to fix, I feel like it just comes down to finding a neat way to lower desperado DPS a bit. Can’t just nerf uzis, then probably inf auto will just reign supreme. Can’t nerf inf auto, it’s not a problem on anyone else. I gave the best suggestion I can think of two posts up, but I’m sure there are more elegant solutions out there.
I’m also just not convinced the nerf they did really did its job either. A melee focused Scum can still quite easily spec into effectively infinite needle pistol. A Crate Scum can still do the same though they’re held back by melee dots not proccing pickpocket. Even that just feels awkward and unintuitive as a limiter though. Meanwhile Desperado can still pump crazy damage and rarely melee if they’re not adverse to hoovering up as much ammo as possible. And that doesn’t really benefit anyone.
TL;DR Near pure ranged Scum is ok to exist within the correct DPS parameters. The fix they’ve done to pickpocket has upset a lot of people while not really achieving what us pro nerf folks wanted. We can do better by both camps than what we were given.
Sienna can go full ranged all game but it costs health and there’s risk of exploding (Battle Wizard is an OP snoozefest in normal gameplay though).
Huntsman can go full ranged against everything if you really want to but the cost is you have low mobility and are very squishy.
Everything that can go full ranged 24/7 in VT2, with a couple problematic exceptions, have very strict trade offs they make for that and those trade offs simply don’t exist in DT as it stands. ALSO I think it’s worth pointing out that VT2 in its early days actually had a ranged meta because infinite ammo was a thing and ranged weapons had generally higher cleave values and the result was melee was made largely irrelevant because it wasn’t safe and couldn’t keep up with ranged classes at all. Game got bland pretty fast before FS fixed it.
Which is fine, but I highly doubt that they’re going to nerf to this extent for it to be remotely reasonable, DPS-wise that is. Since it’s a DLC class of course it must be a bit more OP than its counterparts understandably. I don’t think they’ll go too far with it knowing the backlash & potential reviewing bombing that would ensue. The ‘nerf’ they gave it was just a slap on the wrist & I feel it’s just as strong as it is in this current state. You can still totally play with this style of play at the cost of killing an elite every little bit, which is just ‘okay.’ I would’ve taken it slightly further, IMO. But that’s just me… If they toned down certain ranged weapons or balanced out/reworked how Desperado functions a bit, it could work, for sure. Personally, I don’t see unlimited ammo being in the spirit of the 40k zeitgeist. To me, it’s really more about the melee combat experience. But if somebody wants to shoot all game, I suppose it could work if they changed those ideas around. But as it sits now, it’s still too strong. I mean, I’m literally up there with Psyker DSP, which is crazy, but that’s a whole entirely different can of worms with its own issues. All-in-all, it’s all just a pipe dream that Fatshark would even consider actually balancing this to a reasonable degree for that kind of style. I just highly doubt this will happen at all.
,appreciate it.
