BUILDING ON THE FOUNDATIONS OF VERMINTIDE
When I started working at Fatshark, my colleagues shared an exciting proposition: We wanted to do First Person Melee, but good. Like, really good! And in co-op. Over network. I asked if we had a good example of another game to set the level of expectation for the scope. We quickly concluded that no, there’s probably none. I had previously worked with many combat mechanics but mainly in a single-player capacity. So all the minor tweaks and tricks you employ to make a punch feel impactful usually rely on time manipulation or slowdowns to get it right. You can’t do that in multiplayer. Most of the tells and interfacing we create require a good, clean view of the enemy. We wanted scores of enemies on screen. So looking at that, we gave a silent Swedish nod of “this might get tricky” and then built the Vermintide combat.
When we started working on Darktide, we discussed an even more exciting proposition: taking the core of Vermintide, putting it into the 40K universe, and adding ranged combat to it. Not like separate sections of classic shooting. But integrated. A mix of the two - A hybrid between meaty Melee and Classic FPS. Because 40K has never been about running around with rifles. 40K has never been swordsmen clashing shields. 40K, in its essence, is Bolter in one hand and Chainsword in the other, facing a tsunami of enemies. Do we have any examples of this from other games? No? Another silent Swedish nod and it was “go time.”
We started out with a very colorful prototype, using Vermintide content but with very bright blue and red mockups of guns. The first “limited scope” was a proper but straightforward aim down sight with some basic recoil and spread pattern controls. It was a step up from our previous games. But here’s the thing: if you put an awesome, cool gun in a player’s hands, it comes with expectations and reminders of other games that solely focus on the first-person shooter aspect. We knew this was a risk. We wanted to avoid presenting and reinforcing these expectations. In Darktide when hordes of enemies close in on you, you swap your Lasgun for your Thunder Hammer and wreak righteous havoc on their corrupted souls. We’ve opted to call this Hybrid Combat - not FPS with an optional melee weapon. Players will need to learn how to use both and when to switch between them.
After creating the first prototypes, we sat down and took a long hard look at the game. At the end of that conversation, the Combat team put it bluntly: Shouldn’t we just build a proper FPS experience for our ranged combat? With all the bells and whistles, blend states and dynamic weapons and advanced recoil mechanics and suppression loops and interfacing that come with it? So we did. We even infused all those details into the progression system, allowing players to tailor the weapon handling through a mixer-board-like stat system that makes your gun unique. You are still highly encouraged to bring out your melee weapon because trying to kite a horde or some of our angrier elite enemies will end up with you dead. But up until that point, you’re free to shoot 'em up as much as you like.
oh sweet summer child, was breaking dudes to never touch competitive games ever again before most here shat in their diapers.
and did havoc 40 just fine every season without a wannabe crutch build, so 
one takes out the trash before it starts to stink, simple matter of match hygiene 
nothing more to add to this useless conversation, the onetrick pony got neutered and people are mad they need to put in some effort.
Well there is one solution for that.
Adapt to changes. this is how it supose to look.
Complaing about it only show lack of skill.
akshually I never used rock come to think about it.
at least for the better of 2 years now.(maybe in a test build, but rock doesn’t suit my style)
did big box in the early days before talent revamp,
that count as “facial” ? 
There’s good range only design (Exec Stance Helbore vet), and bad range only design (Desperado Scum back then)
The first requires good aim and good positioning, the later just required to hold m1 in the general direction and positioning was mostly irrelevant since Vulture’s Dodge is still a thing
You’re NOT gonna believe how Bounty Hunter regenerates ammo…
Not supriesed about braggin about h40 lul like it has a some skill proof xDD There are dozen cryers like you carried by the team in h40
Your crylords have a such fragile ego to accept that you need a crutches to even get the melee kills and I feel comfort playing with any build) Get a skill dude seriously
To be fair, Exec stance used to be super broken, and it wasn’t until the nerf/reworks that Veteran went from having the most damage, overpowered Power Sword (PC blessing), Camo, and being the tankiest class in the game to what he is today.
Of all the classes we’ve had so far, Veteran was the most broken and overpowered by a landslide.
Agreed, but I get the complaints.
Bounty Hunter is still mostly a melee class in a mostly melee game while Darktide went from hybrid to mostly ranged for a lot of the classes.
I do agree with you though @Vror, but I get the complaints too.
Show me what crutches @Index are playing with.
I’ll wait.
Yeah Vet was completely busted relative to the other classes and arguably is almost as busted now it’s just that the game itself has completely changed to make his job much less impactful.
You can build BH to be mostly ranged
There are other examples of mostly ranged in VT2 as well
Waystalker being the prime example, the ammo regen being tied to her ult, and you could get the ult faster by cleaving horde, or alternatively you could use javs which are infinite but they have a long reload animation which heavily slowed you down
This is still good design since it does create risk for you as it slows you down and/or having to manage a resource that has consequences when managing incorrectly
Hivescum Desperado is… Lesser risk (faster movement speed, immunity to ranged), higher dmg than anything else when using stuff like Vraks/Dualies, and there was no resource to manage (infinite ammo from both Desperado and pickpocket)
Now at least there’s the pickpocket change, does it do a lot? Eh, it’s something at least
it’s like them flat-earthers at this point, even documented facts aint enough to get through some thick skulls
You what what is truly ironic here?
You dismisng Index skill and fact he play ogryn like 90% of time, what itself is impresive bcs ogryn dont have build in cruches and crutch weapons like other classes, so playing ogryn require actuall skill.
And yeah when I asked one of those “god” like players to do play Havoc 40 as 4 ogryn stack I got no answers.
Lack of response tells more about theirs lack of skill than they think.
Coincidentally I think that the most defining feature of Warhammer 40k as a whole is that all these sci-fi factions all use melee weaponry actively. There’s a deliberate focus on all kinds of swords, axes, and maces and more. In fact the one faction that doesn’t really stands out because of it.
In other words which class fantasy in Darktide actually is ranged-only? Gunluggers are known to just start throwing haymakers and swing their guns, imperial guardsmen all are known to have chainswords, power swords, power fists, all types of swords, some even use spears. Psykers use force melee weapons all the time, and Hive Scums are literally a culmination of multiple stereotypes where the use of bats, chains, knives, shivs, and other scuffed melee weaponry is integral.
So if anything, honestly, someone not ever meleeing breaks the fantasy the most, in this setting
Ogyrn’s really are the hardest for ranged/special spam specifically. I would be ok with spending a wound (corrupting) with the press of a button to auto break out of a net or dog to free myself.
LOL I love how people just insist upon this “your subjective feeling is wrong because of my subjective opinion”.
“We are hive mind, but we also aren’t when it’s convenient” type vibes.
Yeah let’s just pretend that 40k doesn’t have a melee focus because of “subjectivity”
Pseudointellectuals will really label anything a fully subjective opinion, even if it’s a defensible statement with objective facts behind it. You can spout that all you want but you still can’t actually challenge the statement that
- Tide game ranged mechanics are objectively very limited and shallow compared to melee mechanics
- This is because the game was designed around melee and hybrid combat, not ranged as a primary playstyle (check what your ranged weapon is called in your inventory)
- 40k is a melee focused setting so there’s no “ranged only class fantasy” this is breaking, it’s just your subjective preference
just whining that this is my subjective opinion doesn’t mean you aren’t wrong when you disregard these facts.
PS: You suggested earlier a slayer who was forced to ranged would be odd and not sensible. How come you suggested that even though you think it’s 100% subjective? If I thought a slayer with a ranged focus made perfect sense because i personally were to prefer it, wouldn’t that just be my personal subjective preference too? According to your own logic, wouldn’t that mean you were forcing your opinion onto people?
Answer: No, because you yourself know damn well that there’s a degree of facts to these things. A slayer class fantasy has very little to do with ranged, just like how ranged only has very little to do with 40k or tide games.