I don’t want the shredder autopistol to be better than the plasma or boltgun. That isn’t my point or part of my argument/stance at all. I simply would like to shoot it more often lol
The shredder autopistol meta was not the fault of ammo gains though it was from pinning fire and something else was it not? My memory is a bit hazy there.
I understand that you can’t have a class “be bad” at melee in darktide, but you asked and that was my response.
The premise is simple here allow shooty to shoot more.
I am not advocating for more damage per round, or base buffs to the guns(though I probably should but only for ammo capacity and gains from survivalist to that.)
I also will point out, I whole heartedly agree with the “what happens if 3 randoms don’t share your philosophy” and ruin your jam. However to the point, doesn’t that mean most people don’t share the whole view of “I want a challenge”? Aren’t you lot actually the minority making it worse for a majority of people then?
Plasma already gets only 0.5% total ammo back per Survivalist proc, because ammo return is calculated from reserve, not total ammo. Because a normal uncharged shot also uses 3 ammo, you need 4 Survivalist procs to get one shot back.
I don’t like the internal cooldown on survivalist either. I’ve said it back when it was changed, that it’s a bad way to have nerfed it.
Survivalist was so good because it gave too much ammo and because it scaled with difficulty/ density so well.
Having an internal cooldown “addresses” both but I don’t think it should. All they had to do is tweak the numbers.
Differing ammo returns depending on weapon is also a good idea. But I get why FS wouldn’t want to do it that way, it s a lot of work and testing to get the numbers right.
it is a bit much, sure. then again, you’re not supposed to shoot mutants.
I get that. But you can’t have it so that you can shoot a bad gun more without making it so that you can shoot a good gun more either UNLESS you had differing ammo returns. but that’s not what you have been asking for. you’re asking for veteran to get more ammo than his teammates. So much ammo that he could ignore ammo pickups entirely.
No matter where you stand on this difference thank you for taking the time to discuss it.
If it weren’t for those who actually engaged and gave great suggestions this entire thread would be pointless.
I understand the issues here completely and I still stand by invalidating ammo pick ups for veteran. I genuinely believe it changes little to nothing for people who play the hybrid combat system that we’ve had since the first reworks, to the very first nerfs vet received during beta.
(If it makes you feel better I never used powersword in its prime, during launch i played damnation with a knife and plasma(ORIGINAL PLASMA AWWW YISS)
Why not? Autopistol has no armor pen, it’s inaccurate even with Exe Stance active or Zealot’s dodge talent that reduces recoil. So it’s not good against shooters either. You don’t shoot Bulwarks or bosses with it.
So is it a “normal rager only” weapon then?
Zealot’s knife can one-tap both Gunners (Dreg/Scab) and all disablers in Havoc 40. Autopistol barely kills some of them pointblank, with its stagger being the only current feature.
Why can’t people shoot mutants if they want? How is it different from killing a mutant in one hit of Heavy Sword or Ogryn’s self-replenishing rock? Is there such a huge skill gap between these weapons that one weapon deserves to interract with them, and other should be just, well, useless?
because mutants take 2x(?) damage from melee. But I do see your point; the shredder doesn’t have many viable targets BUT the mutant should be one of them.
Maybe one day we’ll get a mission modifier for either normal missions or Havoc where shooters are the main threat, and ranged Veteran can finally shine.
(I know there’s a ranged enemy Maelstorm, but I see it once per month at most.)
Until they stop spawning armored enemy packs consisting of 10+ units at the same time or provide more mission variety, pure ranged Vet will play a second fiddle to support/melee Vet, even if they play “LE OP Hellbore build”.
The gunplay in darktide is terrible compared to melee. It’s far better that this game is in its current state than it would be if it was in its current state and flamethrowers, rumblers, boltguns/plasmaguns all had infinite ammo. The only challenge in this game is its elite/special spam, nothing else, so why would you want a talent that effectively trades 1 to 1 with every elite in the game to give the entire team an entire percentage of ammo? Let alone 2 or 5 percent.
Like, just take a look at scoreboards for havoc. Every run with pre-nerf survivalist would be 5 ammo crates in elite value alone. Then you have special numbers, which would make special surge, a mechanic meant to challenge players with frequent bursts of replenishing specialists, farmable even if you do manage to go negative in the ammo economy. You’re just never going to make the game hard without being impossible to win if you have every aoe/burst damage option in the game with infinite ammo. The amount of enemies the game already spawns is enough to crash the servers, do we really need to make it more crashable?
Then you have the fact that players are just way too fast in this game and have too much leverage over enemies. Dodging has i-frames and meta ranged weapons are incredibly good stagger/suppression tools, have higher dps or burst dps than most melee tools, require very little commitment to make work, and have very generous hip-fire accuracy or weakspot hit detection. This makes the only difficult part of the game, kites of huge packs of elites/specialists, a cakewalk, especially for experienced players.
There were quite a few suggestions to deal with this whole “infinite ammo” problem that you’ve stated here. I personally don’t care if we do have infinite ammo for “veteran” because nothing changes you are still going to have downtime, you are still having a challenging time regardless of that, and you most definitely are still gonna be forced into melee.
If the 2-5% for vet and 1-1.5% for others is too much in your opinion with the current internal cooldown of survivalist, others have suggested more reasonable additions such as making the gains on ammo differ per whatever ranged category would be the most problematic in terms of balancing.
It isn’t a matter of making the game more “crashable” or “breaking balance” it is more of a “Can we open up ranged heavy oriented gameplay”(excluding plasma and bolter from this category)
At the end of the day your fun isn’t being ruined, gameplay still proceeds as is.
I presume you to be a good player so I truly am asking you if veteran having more ammo for say autopistols and autoguns are truly that much of a breaker in your matches.
Are you not still bound by skillsets required to be performing at havoc/auric with buffs to survivialist? Are you saying you would never ever be in a terrible situation, your win rate would be absolutely 100% and a breeze all the time due to these changes suggested here?
Considering that I never run out of ammo in either auric or havoc with auto weapons even on exe stance builds I think their ammo amounts are “far too much” in auric and “okay if a bit much” in havoc. I rather these weapons as well as every other weapon had a significant reduction in their ammo count as well as a rework to enemies that allowed for more intense resource heavy matches with less enemy spam.
Currently it’s very easy to have a high winrate in havoc. Speedrun builds exist, infinite aoe spams and boss oneshot builds exist, the only thing that even kills players in meta is their poor decision-making and occasionally when this game decides to screw them over in their myriad of server connection issues because there’s far too much going on at once. Do we really need to add to this more infinite ammo builds that have no counterplay from enemies because they are just too slow to catch a player back dodging and are easily staggered mid-swing?
And my fun is absolutely ruined by this stuff. I don’t even play the game anymore because I’m tired of rumbler taunt spam, nade spam, psyker spam, ability spam because there’s no difficulty in this game if you have even just one person who locks everything in place and turns off interaction and doesn’t allow anything to swing. I don’t think there’d even be a reason to engage in melee if my autogun that applies brittleness and crits per shot and kills crushers faster than my power sword also had infinite ammo.
You’re against this for pretty valid reasons I get it, but you are kinda proving my point.
At this point who cares, your fun is already ruined and what seems to be the only solution is leaving it as is, or significantly increasing the game’s difficulty by taking quite a bit of things out to the back of the barn and giving it a mercy kill.
What is your vision of Darktide then, because I disagree and what you’re saying is absolutely not what I’m experiencing at all, unless I happen to run into that 1 top tier player every now and then.
The game seems to have gotten to the point where you’ve quit, what would get you to come back?
Additionally was survivalist kneecapped like it is now prior to you quitting?
(sidenote: it also seems like the real problem lies in how there really is something in all classes and general gameplay bothering you and it makes you more antagonistic towards these changes.)
I quit just after the arbites update because that patch made it very clear that the game is not interested in balance and instead will continuously buff and make everything more powerful. The only surprise this patch for me was that every class got buffed at the same time rather than slowly teetered out one at a time.
I have a word document that is several pages long dedicated to all the problems I have with darktide and I will keep them there to myself. For now, I am largely uninterested in the direction the game is heading i.e. every class getting large amounts of self-replenishing aoe stagger tools that regenerate toughness. I think I would straight up take this game out of my steam library if you gave ranged weapons that are already incredibly powerful and dominant even more ammo.
I’m largely antagonistic against these styles of changes because the game has done barely anything to increase difficulty and introduce variety. I don’t even know if we’ve had a new map outside of mortis trials this year. The only hud element I have turned off displays my ammo counter and nades because I don’t run out of ammo and I count each nade I throw an entire game. If there is a list of problems in priority for this game, not having enough ammo for a gun to be viable is very close to the bottom.
My condolences. I know we stand on different sides, but I’m genuinely sorry that the game has gone in a direction where you no longer have interest in playing.
Thank you for taking the time to give your input on this discussion. I can see and understand what you mean with the second half of you’ve said here in regards to maps, difficulty, and variety.
