I have no issues with it being like that if it’s still the same as it is now. Then fine they can add other stuff.
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98% of what? the only people who participated in this thread? compared to a vast majority of people who don’t use forums and play the game?
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what the heck man i didnt even reply to you
Listen no matter what, I understand your position. I can respect your position, you have made where you stand loud and clear. We are just gonna have differences that is all.
If devs dont wanna change it then it is what it is i’m not pressed.
If they do change it that is cool too.
Are you…. using 2 accounts to post in here….?
I have been genuine since the beginning of the thread. The audacity to sit there and call me dishonest while maintaining 2 accounts trashing on me and being unable to properly argue my points is disgusting. You are the dishonest one here, and your character shows.
Ranked PvPer on a forum smurfing is crazy.
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You and the other guy can’t post a sentence without resorting to insults or assuming someone else’s skill level, but you get upset about me being “dishonest” and calling out posts with things like that:
show me on the doll where i hurt you
you really need this op pre nerf crutch, huh
And that’s in response to mere suggestions, which you for some reason feel threatened with.
The things that I’ve replied with are pretty tame compared to everything you’ve said.
most people are trash & this game anyway
Ah, yes, a forum-mandated classic opinion of people who can’t form a human connection outside of their premades.
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every single time
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literally 0 point in buffing enemies if you’re immediately going to buff players to meet that new power level
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Except we’re not buffing players to the degree of hehe hawhaw ezpz cake walk. We’re making ranged heavy oriented playstyles available.
What changes in terms of practical gameplay at auric or havoc with the new reasonable numbers I suggested or what other people have suggested?
Core gameplay remains the same.
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again you’d be buffing the 2 strongest ranged weapons vet has massively, the pullout times and reload times dont really matter when there are multiple talents at the top of the tree that mitigate them, and the plasma gun has animation cancels for reloading anyway
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Those 2 weapons would again still maintain a decent downtime, especially when you are surrounded to the point where you are forced to wield your melee weapon per usual. Plasma especially with said reload time, and even if you negate reloading utilizing weapon specialist, you are still managing overheat. Even if you didn’t buff the survivalist aura you are still maintaining it ammo fairly decently for these 2 weapons, so if you claim they’re fine now then they’d still be the same after based on how actual gameplay is. You aren’t allowed to go full auto in the building the entire match, you simply have more handy spare ammo.(Which is your current state anyway)
However with the suggestions me and others have provided this allows more fun and varied gameplay with
Shredder AutoPistol
Infantry Autogun
Braced autogun
the pullout times and reload times dont really matter
Except they do?
It’s only when you get all three talents 30%, 25% and 10% that you notice a noticable difference in Bolter’s or Plasma’s handling. These two weapons are the slowest ranged weapons in the game, are they not? At least Zealot’s flamer has ammo-control blessings.
In my Havoc Vet build where I consistently rank 1 or 2 best player on the team I’m not using a single reload talent on Bolter, so that I can have melee talents, grenade talents, important breakpoint talents like 15% elites, 30% weakspot or 20% ogryns. Not to mention 10% attack speed that is mandatory on most melee weapons that’s not knife, tacaxe or duelling sword.
That leaves very few free points left that’s better spent elsewhere. Taking both 30% reload speed and 25% reload speed is not just two talent points. It’s 4 talent points in total for both, since you have to take preceding talents.
massively
Not sure I would call that “massively”, since right now Plasma Gun restores exactly 1-2 light shots with Survivalist every roughly 10 seconds, but it’s enevitable that skill changes aimed to improve the overall class experience will buff the best builds.
I’ve also previously said:
To gain more ammo that you spent means tracking Survivalist’s cooldown and not shooting at all before it goes back up.
This ALSO means not shooting common shooters at all, which do not return any ammo.
So if you’re actually killing stuff and being a good anti-shooter unit like Vet should do, you gain LESS ammo back than you’ve spent clearing all these threats.
Nobody’s saying that Vet should get an entire clip back, but a small buff is absolutely fair.
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Also forgot to address this.
Even the best players amongst content creators don’t do animation cancels on every reload for this “tech” to matter enough when considering weapon balance.
Good luck thinking about animation cancelling when this is what you regularly see in Havoc and even in auric games sometimes.
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That doesn’t sound like you have a concern with the balance of the whole thing and would rather not have to look around for ammo crates.
why would it be bad if vet didn’t have to care about ammo crates? of all the classes, vet is THE class to care about ammo. That’s kinda like asking for psyker to not have to care about going over 100% peril but keeping all the bonuses that come from being at max peril.
ah yes, the similarities end at PvE game huh? Ignoring the fact that the two of them don’t fall into the same genre of game at all. It’s also interesting that you say that Warframe lets their stuff be strong, as if survivalist isn’t strong. It’s the 2nd strongest aura in the game and vets best aura by an incompareable margin.
who cares? Anyone that wants their game to have any semblance of challenge, cares for already game-defining strong stuff to not get buffed past the strongest version of the aura that ever existed.
I’ve also seen your builds used as an example of where your standpoint comes from and there is so much to say about that but it boils down to: bad builds and bad opinions go hand in had.
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It’s not even remotely the same, because one is something that Psyker player has a full control over with multiple talents and now two ultimates that reduce peril and remove the blow-up animation.
The other is a limited resource that’s not guaranteed to spawn.
By the way, you also compare a class that has DOUBLE of Vet’s output in games with players of equal skill, while having zero reliance on ammo.
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it’s not the best comparison, yes.
but tell me the gun guy shouldn’t be limited by ammo.
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Well the main point of contention I have is that we should have stronger ammo gains and enable more subset of guns for vet at a higher level of gameplay where you’re swarmed with more things.
Psyker has peril and ways to alleviate peril. Nothing wrong there. I’ve seen how people have had to play that class at end game very admirable.
Survivalist is not strong it is at an “acceptable” level. And if you wanna talk about warframe, think about how many strong things and OVERPOWERED(TORRID) things are in that game. You are hugely misunderstanding the differences here. Overpowered is outright broken. Most people take strong for overpowered.
People who want a semblance of challenge can simply opt to NOT USE SAID STRONG or OVERPOWERED things.
I believe that saying that a 2% or 2.5% personal ammo regain for vet is “overpowered” is ridiculously exaggerated.
You go and say bad builds, I say I went there for fun. Your mentality leads to people just metaslaving away with no variety.(the funny part is I’m winning the way I want with these builds and they offer challenges, not sure what the problem is.)
i’d rather have the gun guy be limited by melee
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but that’s just wrong.
no matter how much ammo you have in your shredder autopistol, it will never be better than a plasma gun or boltgun.
If reserve ammo isn’t a factor, magazine capacity, reload speed and time to kill still are.
You have no idea how tired I am of that specific “argument”. Sure enough, you can chose to not use the very clearly overpowered thing. What happens when you want to play the game to be challenged but 3 randoms come along that don’t share your philosophy? Come on now, we both know it doesn’t work that way. DT already had and solved this problem and it was the shredder autopistol meta. The most miserable meta the game has ever seen.
Kinda can’t have a class be bad at melee in a hybrid combat game.
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They should be, I agree.
But since the Survivalist’s nerfs, Vet feels like they are being punished for killing stuff too quickly.
If you’re good at hitting headshots in quick succession, you get less ammo for it. If you kill shooters, instead of just letting your teammates “handle it”, you’re almost wasting ammo.
I cringe so hard when Veteran on my team doesn’t even try to kill shooters and I have to pull out Heavy Stubber or throw Zealot’s knives at them across the map.
A possible solution would probably be limiting certain weapon types to less ammo gains from Survavilist. But I’m not saying it’s “THE solution”, just something I thought up on the spot.
AKA
1% ammo for Plasma and las weapons
2% ammo for Bolter weapons (pistols and normal bolter)
3% ammo for bullet weapons (revolver and autoguns)
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