Shocktrooper plus Exe stance for extra Crits on a Lasgun isn’t good enough for shooters?
If a Vet wants to spec for an ammo efficient anti-shooter/Gunner loadout, it’s definitely doable but it won’t be simultaneously strong against armor like Boltgun/Plasma - that’s not a bad thing, that’s balance.
Reasonable, if the ammo regen is exclusively for Vet instead of everyone in Coherency, Scavenger Aura becomes something different and the other two Auras get tuned a bit to actually be good Auras.
The buffs and differed returns per category, and gain for vet and others being different were meant to address the following and not lasguns.
Shredder autopistols
IAG
BAG
In premades of high hour players, you forgot to add.
That, or having insane luck with random teammates where 1 Havoc game out of 10 where you have an incredibly easy game with good RNG on enemy spawns.
Speedrun builds exist
And barely anyone plays them in actual real games, because people want to play the game normally and not just skip the map. People who speedrun in auric usually face two fates:
The times where a player like that completes the map are so rare it probably happened less than 5 times to me personally in my 3k hours of gameplay.
boss oneshot builds exist
Which have subpar perfomance against everything other than bosses and rely on teammates to do other tasks.
infinite aoe spams
They do exist. And even with them existing, many people die in aurics in the first few areas, let alone Havoc. Which means that these builds are only broken in the hands of really good players.
And since most of you guys think that good players are extremely rare in this game…
I guess “infinite aoe” is not such a huge problem after all.
I don’t think there’d even be a reason to engage in melee if my autogun that applies brittleness and crits per shot and kills crushers faster than my power sword also had infinite ammo.
MK6 Power Sword kills Crushers in one push attack combo that takes 2 seconds.
Autogun with rending talents still requires almost a full clip to kill a single Crusher.
In Havoc they’re not even remotely close.
Considering that I never run out of ammo in either auric or havoc with auto weapons even on exe stance builds I think their ammo amounts are “far too much” in auric and “okay if a bit much” in havoc
Never-ever? Mhm.
If you actually use your gun to kill specials and shooters which might spawn by the dozen in the first few areas, by the time you enter the second area you’re already at yellow ammo. Orange if you got multiple bosses that you need to kill as fast as possible, because there’s nowhere to backtrack to.
In this Rotten Armor H40 where I’ve played melee gunpsyker with laspistol I’ve spent the majority of the game with yellow to orange ammo, because I was helping Vet killing shooters. And that’s despite the fact that I’ve fought all Rotten Armor enemies and bosses strictly in melee.
I played melee weapon’s specialist exe stance and camped out doorways during special surges (I even went so far as to notice the surge and instead focus on staggering specials until I knew no more would spawn then kill). I specifically used my gun to either kill reapers/gunners and occasional specials or suppress shooters to close the distance/regen toughness. I would then spend entire minutes kiting in circles killing elites one by one. I also looted maps and took ammo whenever, and by the time that I would seriously be low, we’d have an ammo crate. If you’re using your gun so much that it’s out by room 2 of havoc that’s your own fault. Especially on scav aura voc.
Yeah, pubs suck, I know. I pubbed havoc 40 on the same exact map for 3 weeks straight (a map that I have cleared numerous times with my own group on many first attempts on my own “ethical” builds) because I rolled it 3 times and finally got one clear on the final week, largely because one person who I knew played and enjoyed the same kind of builds I did instead played an actually strong build in what really felt like a duo with 2 tag-a-longs. That doesn’t mean that these tools don’t entirely devalue a lot of the things I enjoy about the game.
I haven’t played infantry autogun this patch so maybe things have changed with hp buffs, but brittleness deadshot and marksman’s focus could kill crushers pretty decently on the one build I experimented with before this patch, and now that build should be easier to make. Could just be wrong though.
He just wants to shoot crushers with a low/medium pen weapon and for it to do as much as high pen.
what kind of bizarre strawman argument is this? I’ve never once said that. Stop making up fanfictions.
There is a reason I stopped using brittleness on hit and 10% rend build. I don’t want my low/pen guns killing carapace. That is my decision.
Not to mention that a lot of modifiers make enemies significantly tougher (Stimms, Garden, Rampaging), and in a good chunk of cases, specifically tougher against ranged damage (Rotten Armour, Pus-hardened Skin) or are just specifically punishing ranged play (ammo/vent speed penalties). It’s punishing all ranged play despite it only being a few outliers that overperform, and in the case of one of them, it’s already further punished due to how ammo return works.
Darktide really needs a big balance pass on almost all ranged weapons individually, because punishing all ranged play (like reducing ammo return in general) affects the undertuned weapons way more than any of the problematic overtuned weapons.
It is kind of tragic how the discussion of ammo aura leads to a bigger picture problem across the board in the game.
It’s almost always been the case where Fatshark make changes on the weirdest things to target certain behaviours that significantly kneecaps the struggling options while barely affecting the overtuned options.
now that more’s been laid out on the table I will say this OP, I do think there is not quite support at the highest difficulty for a mostly shooting Vet build (ofc they will have to use melee too, but I get the playstyle you’re looking for), but I think those should be limited to more generalist ranged weapons and not just changing Survivalist since that will affect literally every single gun that exists instead of just ones that don’t have much of a niche.
Even if you decide to make Survivalist kind of tiered by weapon type, that’s adding a ton of complication to the equation that will continue to affect every other gun that gets added going forward. Why not come at it from the weapon/talent side of things to encourage some less-used guns that will have improved ammo economy/efficiency/etc (there are a few ways they could make it happen)
That is a fair take, and I’d be happy if they decided to take that route instead of what we currently have or what I suggested executed properly.
The other talent I can see being changed for this is the one across shock troop, the 15% clip size → something for efficiency/economy for bullet weapons
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