Hey fatshark are you even listenening to this section?

The industry sets the expectations, not the players.

None of this is evident in their content updates.

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nahh they just trow all trash thread in there and never respond. and i think they are more focus on reddit.
dont get me wrong i like ur post :smiley:

Wrong - Poeple set their own expectations. It´s the same in every part of the life.

You had a hard working - day and expect that your room got cleaned up and food is on the table, granted by your mother/gf/whoever. It´s YOU who expect that and it´s you, who is probably peed off, if something don´t go the way you want.
Noone in the world set expectations to others. This is the own egoism mind. “I expect that from, because…” Wow…

How should even an industry set expectations, if those are always different from player to player?

Riot made a new skin for LoL.:

  • Half of the playerbase : “Oh how cute!!! I need that one!!!”
  • The rest : “For real, what is this barbie - sheet for this c+ncer champ”

So who expected what?

The modern humanity expects too much, that´s all and the whole problem. You guys can sit home, waiting for the next DLC or whatever and even with 1000h+ something isn´t like you want and you can cry behind a nickname stealth in a world wide web. If something don´t match your expectations, maybe do it by yourself and don´t cry the whole day.

Don´t take it personally, just because i wrote it in “you”- form. It´s an overall opinion.

Finally found it.

To be fair, the company is located in Sweden. Sweden has extremely harsh laws on employers and employees. They have to take their vacation, they do not have a choice. I’m assuming a lot of them are there on work permits as well, if they are from outside the EU. Hedge would be there working under EU free movement laws, since he’s a Brit. He still has to follow the rules. Workers can and do get deported for not taking their vacation in Sweden. Their employer messing up taxes or filing something wrong can also mean deportation. Even your employer messing up your salary can mean your work visa is denied. Just thought I would give some insight into why they had to take vacation.

That’s why Riot makes a lot of skins, so that everyone from that playerbase would have at least a couple they like.
But we’re getting off topic. It’s not about expectations any more, it’s about the fact that that they are not able to remedy the core problems, let alone introduce new content which raises some questions.

Is the game playable? —> Yes
Is the game fun? —> Yes
Does this game have a bright future? —> Not sure
Will Fat Shark be able to successfully continue this franchise —> Not sure
Does it look like Fat Shark has clear priorities —> So far not.
Does it look like FS is capable to fix some burning issues one by one —> So far not.
Does it feel like FS can resolve old bugs/problems without introducing new ones during that process —> No
Does it feel like somebody is pushing the team in a wrong direction, or pushing them to release content which is not properly tested —> Yes.

These are my answers, yours might be different but I can only speak for myself. I’d really like for FS to prove me wrong and make me fully believe in them. I’d really like for this game to succeed so we can have at least 2 more sequels throughout the next 6-7 years. I’m ready to continue to back them up financially and emotionally, but they need to prove that they can properly handle this project.
So far I’ve bought this game for myself (collector’s edition), my GF and my best friend, while 3 of my friends bought it just by listening to my fanatical praises of Vermintide. So that’s 6 copies sold so far, directly and/or indirectly because of me. I’ve bought the DLC as well. That’s how much I love this game and how much I really want it to be great at one point. But I’m slowly loosing my faith in the whole thing.

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Is the game playable? —> Yes
Is the game fun? —> Yes
Does this game have a bright future? —> Not sure - YES
Will Fat Shark will be able to successfully continue this franchise —> - YES
Does it look like Fat Shark has clear priorities —> So far not. - YES
Does it look like FS is capable to fix some burning issues one by one —> So far not. - YES
Does it feel like FS can resolve old bugs/problems without introducing new ones during that process —> No - Noone is
Does it feel like somebody is pushing the team in a wrong direction, or pushing them to release content which is not properly tested —> Yes. - NO/YES

  • As we´ve mentioned over a couple of threads ago, the game got more attention, that it could handle. A lot of ppl started the game and left it for certain reasons. (to hard, to repeatable, not enough content/loot) I´m sure just a few guys left, because of some bugs. I´m pretty sure, that the core-playerbase growed up since V1.

  • I think the game got its moments, the warhammer universe and a great gameplay, so it´ll continue. Fatshark already works/worked on issues and fixed a lot. New bugs are pretty normal, you´ll never find a “perfect” game.

  • Yes new patches aren´t obviously not properly tested, but i don´t think, that someone pushed the team in a wrong direction. The PC version came out and a lot of stuff got fixed. To follow up the hype-train, get the game sold and a bigger fan/playerbase, they focused on the xbox - version. It´s pretty normal to go that way and at the end easier, to program a DLC for both platforms at the same moment.
    I won´t argue about vacation too. Ppl need that…we all need that…

I don´t play that much anymore too, but that depends on the “new” randoms since the DLC. I´ve got no problem with wiping, dieing etc. But if i start the game and get kicked for my NB, hagbane, taking ammunition, soloing a horde or just have to play with ppl who run forward (mostly HM), ignore their team and cry if they die, i don´t want to play more games.

I mean… how many hours do you or the most guys have in this game? I can´t believe any company could bring us content/fixes in that amount of gametime. If everyone just criticize this game and FS and that mostly with some c+ncer stuff, nobody has to wonder, that Verminitde won´t get a future.

I’m just afraid that because of bad decisions and bad plans FS might run this franchise to the ground. It wouldn’t be the first time a developer fu*ked up a successful franchise.

Although this is true, it doesn’t have much to do with the actual state of the game. I would rather say that Fat Shark took too big of a bite with the second game and they are still choking and trying to swallow it. The game is much much bigger and has a lot of new things compared to the VT1, but it was released too soon.

There’s a big difference between being perfect and the current state of VT2, and there’s plenty of space in between. I don’t ask for perfection because such thing is impossible. I ask them to slow down, take their time, prioritize and properly test all the patches before they roll them out.

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Well as more ppl play, as more ppl cry etc etc etc… If someone found something to argue about, a lot of ppl just start crying about the same thing over and over again and didn´t even think about it. (Redshell?!..even Facebook or google are bigger “spyware” xD)
There are a lot of bad reviews without any knowledge or just with personal feelings.
Bad reviews = lower potential for new consumers = lower playerbase = bad motivation for the devs = less cash = bad future

I agree in some ways and not in others. Bugs yeah, but content and especially the whole career-tree discussions are fine. I do know that there are a lot of balance-issues and i don´t know what FS´s thoughts were about it at release. But maybe (next to the lvl 20 talents) FS wanted to force the player in specific roles. That would even be ok, if the game wouldn´t be a LMB-smasher the most of the time. (don´t forget the range meta)

I mean completely bugfree with “perfect”. It´s sadly nearly impossible to fix some issues without break something on the other end. Overall the game is playable and even a lot of host/clients - issues gone.
(which were the important ones in my opinion)

I hoped for that a long time, but as long as we´re in the minority here, the “i want, i want it now” - ppl will get their stuff quite fast and we all saw what happened with the hookrat-noise-patch or the DLC-bugs.

Hate will kill this franchise and not only FS.

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Well, that’s hopefully a lesson that FS is slowly learning. Your customers shouldn’t dictate the speed of which you roll out the content. No matter how many people are crying for new content and how many of them are threatening to stop playing because of lack of it , majority of them will be back as soon as new content is released. FS just needs to be brave and ignore that part of the feedback. They need to be confident in their product and the future of it. “It will be done when it’s ready, but it’s gonna be properly done” is the correct philosophy.

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I doubt they all had to take a vacation at the same time. I have no idea what Swedish employment law says on the topic, but, even with mandatory vacation time per employee, it seems plausible that they could stagger PTO so that they could still keep the lights on.

Either way, I’m not arguing that they shouldn’t have taken time off. I’m saying that they should have communicated better – and they still should! Especially if they miss deadlines and/or go on a month-long company-wide holiday.

I remember when I entered the forum shortly after the release date, where just about every other thread revolved around lacking communication. I’m just thinking that the board would be a much happier place if they had done what the community asked for back then. Lack of communication from a game dev that asks for feedback from the player base is, at least to me, arrogant as hell.
Until the game reaches it’s final patch we here on the forum are beta testers for a game development company that makes money off of our feedback. Now dont get me wrong. FS has been listening as can be seen by bugs being fixed and some feedback taken in to consideration, but those are not requests from the player base. they are ideas and bug reports nothing else. The only things the community has been asking for is communication from the devs and end game content. And those are the two things the community has not been granted. It’s a one way street. Makes me sad that people can be so blind to the obvious. That everything in here would be sunshine and rainbows and people would give FS more leeway instead of bitching at every single corner. But who wouldn’t complain. I didn’t sign up to be a beta tester. I bought a game that promised a shetl load of things that isn’t in the game. Dedicated servers ring a bell?
Instead we’re left with what is now a semi final product that will probably enter it’s final stage within long. All thanks to the forum community. The same community that has been asking for 2 simple things which the devs wont even respond to.

If I ran a game dev company and people where kind enough to take the time to go on my forum and give me feedback, ideas and bug reports I would show some serious gratitude towards these people by acknowledging their support for one. In a game where the end game content is cosmetics I’d make some special ones for those that helped the game in development as beta tester. That’s what I would do. I’m not saying FS should do just that. But then, why not ? isn’t that perfectly fair?

Yes, I would like the game to be better. I’d like better communication, more end game content, and bugs to be fixed – also, I’ve seen many posts by people asking for bugs to be fixed before additional content is released. However, I don’t think it’s arrogant that they ask for feedback and acknowledge that they will read but not respond to every thread. I think it’s arrogant to say that they need to do what I want because they’ll make money off of my feedback, or that I would do it better and faster than they are. But, maybe I’m wrong.

I didnt mean it like that. Sorry if I explained myself wrong. What I mean is that the least they can do is open up for general communication. If I was a normal consumer who didnt give any feedback and act as beta tester I wouldn’t be asking FS for anything. Not a thing. but I am giving feedback and I am an semi active user of the forum and bcs of that My voice should have some weight. I’m essentially a member of the FS team whom doesnt get paid nor any form of acknowledgent of my work. but maybe give us a general update on how things are progressing etc. like once a week. Can’t take no more than 15 minutes max to write a small post on the state of affairs and wouldnt that be time well spent in relation to forum/beta tester care?

Because ofcourse they cant respond to every thread but at stated by hedge or whomever the FS employee was, they read just about everything on the forum and so a weekly update would probably appease most.

Hey guys this week we’ve been looking into these:
1: Balance issues with “insert weapon”
2: talking about end game content - we got some good ideas from you guys but we have not reached any conclusions yet. Stay tuned.
3: Looked into some blind spots on righteuos stand where the mobs cant hit you but you can hit them.
4: missing key on cod is being fixed.
5: etc
6: etc

It’s So goddam easy and takes no time at all.
My review of VT2 is horrible. Bcs everything from the get go was just that. Horrible. Then things got better, bcs of me and you and everybody else giving feedback. then we began telling them that some things like the rng was horrible and we hated it. we hated it so much that people stopped playing bcs of it. but they didnt want to change it… apparently. We actually dont know. and thats the issue. They ask us to give feedback but we have no way of knowing if that feedback actually ever reaches them. Between all the feedback I have given I have not seen ONE akcnowledgemnt in any way or form. So I ask why the hell bother ?

Another thing: If they truly do read just about everything then they are either arrogant or plain stupid. Arrogant bcs they know we have been asking for transparency/communication since day one and they have blatantly decided to not even respond on how little they care to respond on our requests. It’s a fock you right in the face. Stupid bcs success lies in appeasing your customers and those that are around you helping you out.

Would anybody srsly help a friend move more than once if he didnt show any gratitude for your help the first time?

But it’s even worse than that. Bcs in this case. We have actually asked that friend since we ever helped him move to acknowledge that we helped and maybe buy us a pizza for that help. But he doesnt and he dont. He doesnt give a flying …. about us. the only thing he cared about was getting someone to help him move.

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I guess I just don’t quite understand this reasoning. Everyone posting feedback has some weight. Fatshark reads it and take it into consideration. How much weight should your voice carry because you provide unpaid feedback? If they disagree with your solutions, should they do it anyway? Should they alter priorities for you over someone else providing feedback? Should they just do whatever the forum majority says?

I strongly believe that Fatshark wants their playerbase to enjoy the game, but I think they have to mesh what the people are vocal about on the forums with what they can realistically accomplish (like people want dedicated servers, but that has proven to be far more difficult to accomplish in their desired time frame), what is healthy for the game (like people want progression on the modded server, but that could split playerbase and increase backend cost), what they have time for (like putting DLC on hold to work on bug fixes), and what their vision of the game is (like people want far less RNG, but they feel that RNG is integral to Warhammer and Vermintide).

I’m all for providing feedback and encouraging them to make the game more of what we would enjoy, and I would love to have more insight into what they are working on. I also think they could do better than what they are doing. But I think it’s pretty bold to say the game would be better if they would just listen to whatever people say on the forums.

No I’m not saying that they should do what I say. Thats not what I’m saying at all. I’m not here make demands and I would never assume they would go about changing a game over one random forum users opinions. What I am asking for is them to give some feedback back to the community that they rely on for fixing bugs and generel feedback.

Like you state yourself then you are here to encourage them to make the game better by reporting bugs and giving feedback in general but imagine if they decided to be vocal about not just your effort but everybody’s. It would give a lot of people incentive to continue to report back as they know that the time they spent reporting ideas to the devs have been read at least. In the bugs section they plaster a acknowledgement sticker on every acknowledged post. That’s feedback. We need that in the feedback section and not just in the bugs section. I know everybody feels different about all these things but there has been a large amount of unhappy people and threads about this specifik topic. Many of those people are no longer part of the forum hence no longer applying feedback or bug reports. Steam reviews have gone down from high rated to no so much and many of the reviews are at least in some way or another pointing to lack of comms from the devs. If large amounts of the player base on the forum continually point out a single issue that just keeps getting neglected then they are bein stupid. (I dont mean they are dumb - I mean it’s a less than well thought out decision)

So when I wrote that I wouldn’t expect them to listen to some random guy(singular) I mean that, but when you have half of the forum getting asking for the same thing they should most definitely
listen as they represent the generel player base.

So again, I’m not saying they should listen to ME. They should listen to the majority of the voices from the forum. I’m saying that they themselves have said that they read just about everything on the forum and with that said we can then assume that they know half the forum are annoyed about the lack off coms from the devs while the other part doesnt care.
Would the part of the forum that doesnt care get upset if the devs began being vocal on the forum ? No ofc they wouldn’t but the other part would be pleased. It’s a win win situation that could turn some of the negative vibes the games has gotten over the past 3-4 months.

regarding the dedicated servers I’m all in for making mistakes and doing what you can to fix them, but they dont seem all that eager to get those servers up and running. It’s been 6 months! They are clearly not working very hard on the servers! On the other hand they have both had the time to launch the Xbox version and a dlc. Yet another slap in the face from the devs. How would you or anybody feel if I owed you money but instead of trying to pay it back to you I went out and spent money on clothes. It’s a clear sign of disrespect to the people whom bought the game. And then back to transparency - Where’s the community updates regarding the servers ? they promised dedicated servers but didn’t deliver and dont care to update anybody about it. But maybe they did make an update on reddit or facebook or a third platform. Anywhere else than the actual forum they made for this kind of information. I can’t even begin to fathom their logic on how to do things. It seems completely random with no oversight from a director of any kind.

In the end we can’t change their minds and you have your thoughts on said subject and it is what it is.
But I just think it would be a good idea, for FS at least to take into account that no matter the size of the forum, the people on here are representing the entire player base. If half the forum asks for end game content we can assume half the VT2 player base wants end game content.
Half of the active users on the forum are gone just as half of the active player base according to steam is gone. Listen to the forum, not me.

For example. If they read this thread here they could easily comment saying whatever they wanted. “hey FS here - just to let you know, we decided to stop communication with our community just like we decided to scrub the dedicated servers. we know youre going to get pissed but tough love we dont care”
This might not be the feedback we wanted to hear but I’d take that any day over silence. Any feedback is good feedback and it needs to go both ways. It’s a symbiotic relationship. Or rather it should be a symbiotic relationship but as things are now it’s not. Not by a long shot.

As im not employed by FS, which is a major mistake of theirs as the game would be having status as game of the century or at least they would have someone on the forum board that gave a turd about the forum, and I dont know the inner workings of said company and it’s not like a have a need or a previlige to do so but if they decided to be transparent or at least more transparent on things related to the forum I might change my mind about FS and stop commenting negatively like this thread here. The fact that the thread even exists proves my point. At least from my point of view.

Do you know how FEEDBACK works?

It is something you take and don´t complain about. You maybe say “thx” and that´s all, even if it´s critical and not only love.

It takes time and there isn´t really a reason to tell us things like that.
Do you really want, that hedge goes around every morning like:

“Hey bud, what are you doing this morning, so i can tell our flaming community something.”

“Hey bud…”

“Hey bud…”

“Hey bud…”

2h later…

So community… we work on some fixes. bb…

As long as they don´t have something to announce, there isn´t something to announce. They´ll tell us patch-notes with the next patch and stuff about game-changes and new maps with the next DLC.

Why are they arrogant or plain stupid? Because they didn´t made changes like “you” want?

Especially the RNG fact. I´m fine with it like some other ppl. You and others don´t like it. So what should FS do? They can´t design a game for everybody.
It´s again, what you expect and what you get. The most ppl here or on steam/reddit just cry the hell out, even flame FS into the ground and still expect things like communication or patches every week?

This trash-community couldn´t even accept some vacation or that there is a xbox-community too.
“OMG FS XBOX IHHHHHHHHHHH! VACATION IHHHHHHH!!! HOW DARE YOU!!! FIX THE GAME YOU AWOIHFHUKAHFIAFHUIHSFUIH”

Nice attitude… in which world does PC have priority in any way? The game should be available for every platform and the devs deserve a vacation too. It´s arrogant and egosim to WANT THAT FS does anything, just because your or someone else want.

Best example for “how not”.

You helped someone - great behavior.
You asked for compensation - wtf?

HELP = do something for someone without any thoughts about a compensation.

If he´s a friendly guy, he´ll help you/the others an other day or will buy you a pizza/burger/beer on his own.
Again you expected something and probably got peed off, because he said “no”.

FS did one mistake in the past and that was the roadmap. But hey… we everybody finally got the 2 maps for free.

Do we get dedicated servers? We don´t know.
Do we need them in the current game state? Not really.
Do we need a better Host - system? probably

That´s all you could argue about, because FS promised nothing next to it.

The most feedback here is subjective, egoism or crying. FS have to take their time to weigh all of them.
They “destroyed” enough with the latest update for really good/elitist players. The game became much easier, because a lot of ppl complained, who don´t even played legend properly.
So what happened? A lot of core-players left, because they read and act only for one side of the playerbase.

  • I want to kill the temp-health with a compensation. Do you want, that they do that, because i told that?
  • Someone else here want a HS-buff. So FS maybe should make him happy?
  • The next want cosmetics to buy in a cash-grab-shop. Good idea to split “content” in a cash-shop?
  • Fix bugs and don´t make content! Fix bugs? OK! No new maps for the next year? PLS NO!

These are just some examples and yes, some ppl agree and others don´t You can´t even act like “more ppl want this, the minority want that”. You´ve to start thinking objective and in more ways like “someone wants”. Every decision changes game-aspects and will make someone angry 100%. Even this Forum is just maybe 0,5% of the whole active playerbase.
We can argue about 1000 things here and i´ll find always any reason for “yes/no” and i can tell you enough reasons, why the game got a lil bit killed with every patch, that the community wanted. e.g. red´s everywhere.

So maybe… just maybe start asking your own what is objective and what is really good for the game. That would help much more and is a 100% better time spend, than complaining about the game, FS and their work. Why? Because complaining won´t change anything.

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I’m guessing, not sure, but guessing, they would want all their employees to take time off at the same time for efficiency reasons. No point in letting the programmers take time off when the design team is just stacking up work for them, when they are obviously months behind anyway. The only way I could explain it, is from experience. I worked for a company that approved my vacation, the only other 2 fork lift drivers couldn’t come into work during my vacation for various reasons. So what happens, you have all the warehouse workers unloading container trucks by hand and re-stacking everything back on pallets, taking 10x as long. When I came back to work, I had trucks piled up waiting to be unloaded, they actually got me to come back early and paid me for the vacation plus gave me more time off to take later. Worked out nice for me, but not for the company xD

I know my wifes job for example here in Sweden, her entire company closes for 3 weeks in the summer, only essential staff are kept on. Think of Sweden like school, summer vacation is summer vacation, no one comes in, lol. You won’t believe how backwards their employment laws and immigration laws are. I’m not joking, people actually get their work visa denied and deported because their employer forgets to pay them on time or doesn’t force them to take vacation.

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Pretty much exactly that. No one’s work exists in a vacuum, and everyone’s work needs at least some kind of input from others. If the vacation times are more or less randomly staggered, everything slows up for far longer than if many people take their vacations at once, as one person’s input waits until they get back, then continuing that piece waits until the first person returns. Plus all the work stacking, which requires everyone to work extra hard afterwards to return to the normal rhythm. It can certainly be coordinated, and likely is, so that not everything gets completely stopped, but even that slows down work a lot. Besides, the custom is to have the vacations at certain times which means that ones’ friends, spouses and children are also vacationing at that time. Some of those are harder to coordinate than others (school vacation times are pretty much set in stone), so those who have families and/or close friends they want to spend time with need to set their schedules together. Thus, a lot of people vacationing at the same time.