So i have 2 accounts for Darktide, because of some real life reasons (in the beginign didnt want to level up havoc without my friend, but wanted to play havoc when he couldnt play too). I mainly play the main account , which is atm at Havoc 30, so the second one is rusting. I recently wanted to level up Havoc again without him because he went on holiday, and started from level 16.
On level 16 i had 6-8 bosses, some within 1-2 minutes span. On level 17, i had twins and a abeast of nurgle at the same time. To me this is tottaly bonkers and contrary to the idea of Havoc. And im pretty sure if i log again and play some more, there will be runs when there is 2 bosses in the whole run and its so easy its almost boring.
To be clear i dont care if i make it to level 30 or 20, but i want a real sense of gradually getting better and beating gradual increase in diffculty. I dont want to feel i just advance when i have luck and when i dont have it i drop. I mean i would imagine it wouldnt be a herculean job to programm “Level 15-20 havoc - 4 bosses max, no more then 1 boss at same time, no spawning in shorter interval then 4 minutes”
To me it really takes away the fun from a ladder system like Havoc, feeling its so much random, skill feels sometimes less important.
Vermintide 2 endgame gamemode (Weaves) actually solves your issue, but at the same time it creates another
In VT2, all 160 (I think it’s 160?) ranks per season are fixed missions, meaning that enemy Spawn, item spawn, boss spawn, and everything like that is always the same every single run
This solves the issue of having the next mission be garanteed harder than the previous, but at the cost of people just learning the seed and having the mode be extremely repetitive for the dedicated
Havoc having RNG might sound bs and problematic, but I kinda feel that’s what makes havocs exciting to play
Getting thrown into a bad situation and winning over it is 10 times more satisfying than never being thrown into one
I think there is a golden medium. You can keep the randomness, but put limitations ont he extremes. Notice i suggested not “2 bosses” but “4 bosses max, no more then 1 boss at same time, no spawning in shorter interval then 4 minutes” . You still get randomness, you just dont get crazy extremes.
We are talking here about havoc 15-20, of course higher up there would be more then 2 or even 3 bosses at a time. But thats exactly my point, lets not make a situation when havoc level 17 resembles havoc 25.
Aside from random spawned boss, there’s trigger points that spawn boss, so if you constantly fight several of them, it’s your team problem for not falling back and killing 1st boss.
IT seems to me like you are being contrarian for the sake of it. Having 6-8 bosses on havoc 16 isnt normal Having twins+ monstorsity at the same time on havoc 17 isnt normal. Or if it is make it constant, but i remember doing these Havocs and it being easier then auric. Well this time it was considerably harder then Auric shock troo gauntlet. This much variation really isnt good.
Twins and a monstrosity is semi-normal, yes. Twins triggers are separate from monstrosity triggers, and so it’s very, very possible to get both at the same time.
Multiple full monsters (aka, not weakened monstrous specials spawns) is also kinda a “normal” thing, but it’s very situational. There’s a few places in the game where there’s a boss spawn trigger, and then another boss spawn trigger 5 feet further down the path, and then another one 5 more feet down. And if you don’t know where they are and walk past all of them, it is very possible to get up to 2 full monster spawns at once (this is why it pays bigly to know where boss triggers are and control the pacing of the group to not cross multiple triggers without verifying if the first went off or not).
That said, there is a bug in the spawning system that’s tied to pacing changes (aka, when the spawning system shifts from normal “going along the path” mode to “event” mode or vice versa) that can remove all limits on boss spawns for a time, and when that happens, it is possible if your team is unlucky for the same boss trigger to go off 3-4 times and dump all of those monsters on you at once. The most I’ve ever seen at the same time is 4 full monsters and 2 weakened monsters, and it’s very not fun when it happens.
On Havoc 16/17 ~ 6 months ago when i was climbing and playing quite a fewa games around this level also helping other players, it wasnt. The most you got was 1 captian or boss at a time. Things started to ramp up for real around havoc 21-22, and yeah there twins + monstrosity would start to show from time to time, but not below 20.
it wasn’t like that, because AI and enemy position changes the dynamics of every situation and there is still rng in that regard.
just to think the same as FOW which has fixed spawns waves but everytime it’s still feels different because AI doesn’t always behave the same, because it has also to do with the player positions and other factors.
and also no, in weaves not ironically 160th weave is the most easiest, compared to a 140th one and others.
i dont think rng seed in DT is any that interesting anyway, you either get scab or dreg seeds and most of the time is still feels the same but just more dynamic.
Could you point us to some missions and the areas in said missions where this can happen? This is something we’re investigating.
Any change you could provide some more details on the bug you describe here? A video or a console log of a mission where it happened would help track this down.
So maybe we shouldn’t place triggers — especially invisible ones — so close to each other? And in general, to hell with all these triggers. Bosses should spawn randomly with some probability, except in places where it would be extremely difficult to fight them. And if one boss is already active, the chance of a second boss spawning should be lower than the first one’s chance was. If two bosses are active, the chance of a third one spawning should be even lower.
When pacing starts (first enemy attacked by a player, first drop down) the cooldown between monstrous specials (% chance to become one) doesn’t start, also happens when pacing exits controlled state (after a terror event)
The one I most clearly remember is Chasm Logistratum, specifically right past the doorway below (relatively early, just past the first medicae) has 3 boss triggers a couple of meters apart. Or it did around 18 months ago at least; very possible it’s changed in the time since, I haven’t checked.
I’ve been told it’s to do with when control of the spawns switches between pacing and events and the like.
The specific example I see semi-regularly is the opening of Mercantile HL-70-04. I’ve had multiple missions where going through the first real door (right at the start, first doorway after blowing open the wall, the door into the room where you hop the railing and drop down to where the footage below takes place) will cause 3-5 monsters to spawn and pile on the team while doing the event.
Here’s some footage from the first time it happened to me, I’m pretty sure this was a Havoc 40 run:
The most recent time was right over the weekend, where we ran into the exact same thing (though I think one or two of them were Weakened monsters instead), but I didn’t think to save the footage or logs.
Edit: This is the doorway right before the trigger in question, now that it’s letting me upload a second picture for whatever reason.
@FatsharkQuickpaw Friend of mine that joined me on one of the missions over the weekend I mentioned above found a console log that we’re pretty sure, but not 100% confident, comes from that run. Our best guess is line 27068 in this log is the start of the mission with the bugged spawns, if that helps any.
A comment from a youtube video about Havoc, that seems to share my sentiment:
The ‘standard difficulty’ thing is something I really have seen before. I’ve only played to at most 33 games. Won a 31. Ranked at 26. I’ve had 26’s that were IMPOSSIBLE. 4 bosses 10 disablers, constant fire on the ground sort of situations and I’ve had level 30 games, of which I’ve already won a few bunch that were a breeze, like not even breaking a sweat or going down even once. I find it rather annoying that this game can have so many arbitrarily difficult situations thrown at you without it being consistant.
It is… I played a really little time Havoc, but I encountered this a lot of times…
However, I made it more fun… I tested with one guy the zealot speed run… so running running dodging enemies etc… until you are stuck. Then you fight everything (so 4 - 5 bosses and a sea of crushers etc.).
Was really fun… however it doesn’t change that I dislike ammunition modifier fro Havoc.
But seeing twins + 1 monstrosity is the normal behavior of the Director when you’re in havoc.
