Having seen everyone talk so much, I'll combine my personal gaming experience to explain why the balance of values always causes some players to have a strong reaction every time

First of all, the current game’s normal mode and havoc mode are two completely different environments. Challenges above havoc30 are extremely difficult and may severely restrict the team’s bd combinations. But why do so many players still choose to play havoc despite so many restrictions? In my opinion, the havoc mode is actually similar to the ranking system of other games. After experiencing all the game content, many players can only wait for the next content update. However, the step-by-step difficulty and rank rewards in havoc give these players the motivation to log in every week and challenge new levels. This is also the reason why the havoc mode is so difficult but has higher player stickiness than Mortis Trials.

So the current question is whether the numerical balance of the game should be based on the N5 difficulty in normal mode or havoc? In my opinion, the normal mode should still be the benchmark for game balance. After all, havoc is essentially a high-difficulty challenge mode developed as an end game gameplay. Actually, we don’t have to play until havoc40 every week. Enjoying the game within our capabilities is the most important thing.

Furthermore, let’s discuss this data balance itself (since I mainly engage in Vet, I won’t talk about other occupations for now). Just as many people have said, in fact, the number of weapon enhancement projects this time far exceeds that of weakening projects. However, I believe that the effectiveness of this adjustment cannot be judged by the comparison of the number of projects between weakening and strengthening. The veteran has reworked a talent that has gained 50% penetration, increased ammunition for the infantry laser, and extended the duration of hit determination and execution posture. These are several major enhancements that the veteran has obtained this time. In terms of weakening, voc increases the cd time, while plasma weakens the penetration ability. It is obvious that the adjustments made by Fat Shark are aimed at encouraging players to use more uncommon weapons such as the execution pose and infantry laser, but can this really be achieved? I think it is absolutely impossible to make adjustments merely based on the above.

The issue with the Execution Pose does not lie in the duration of its skills or the damage it provides, but rather in the fact that the Execution Pose skill is too fragile in the CQB battles of the Dark tide. The veteran who activates the execution stance is actually lacking in self-protection and is extremely vulnerable to being interrupted by enemies (my friend even says this skill should be called exrcutionally cut, because every time he activates this skill, he is forced to switch power sword by the melee enemies around him). On the contrary, voc is currently a skill that can temporarily disperse enemies around and create a shooting window for veterans. At the same time, voc also has higher team buffs than the Execution Pose, whether it’s the Golden Shield or treating fallen teammates.

What the infantry laser weapon actually lacks is not ammunition but relatively high recoil and semi-automatic mode. I can understand that Fat Shark attempted to turn the infantry laser into a precise shooter rifle with low ammunition consumption, but this idea does not hold water in the mainstream combat environment of the dark tide. In actual combat, it is difficult for players to continuously shoot enemies’ heads with semi-automatic weapons in a narrow environment surrounded by enemies. Moreover, there is now even a long-range enemy that cannot be quickly killed by laser weapon headshots (not to mention that the game is now full of shield Guys, while the enemies’ flamethrowers, trap nets, and sniper rifles can freely penetrate enemy waves and shields). In contrast, plasma can not only penetrate a large number of enemies but even cover. That is to say, if the team is surrounded by enemy waves, snipers and grenade soldiers at a distance can only rely on such high-penetration and high-damage weapons to kill them.

To sum up, we can find that this balance adjustment actually weakened the mainstream weapons and talents of the veteran, but failed to enhance other less popular weapons and talents to a fun level. That is to say, in my opinion, this adjustment to the veteran cannot enhance the playability of this profession and may even reduce it. And we know that the balance adjustment in the Dark Tide game is actually very slow. A certain weapon just becomes unadapted to the environment due to the enemy’s enhancement. It might take a full two years for Fat Shark to notice it again (like the infantry laser), not to mention those weakened weapons that are directly abandoned in the corner of the warehouse (like our poor automatic pistol).

Another day another poorly translated post arguing the exact same opinions about how all the weapons except OP crutches suck because the slightest of nerfs and reworks were teased by a YouTuber.

The reason we are in this state is because people insisted on constant buffs to their weapons and skills and so the game became a bloated mess as Fatshark tried to compensate. One of the reasons Vet never gets a chance to aim past shields is because of that.

If you want the game to work you need to give Fatshark the breathing room to nerf weapons and skills down to reasonable levels and nerf enemy spam similarly.

:backhand_index_pointing_up::backhand_index_pointing_up::backhand_index_pointing_up::backhand_index_pointing_up:

Yes, so I think Fat Shark might also need a 60-day plan to readjust the game. The various minor changes made now are actually unlikely to completely reverse the problem of inflated game stats.Not only performance adjustments for players, but also for enemies.

Well put, I don’t think some people can see past their initial rage response to changes which affect their weapon or talent picks.

True. Deleting veteran, psyker, zealot, ogryn, arbitrator n hive scum is the only way to save our game for they all got talents that r op.

To be fair, I feel that they carefully read what we said about veterans

And I feel that the changes are really good for this class.And even if I don’t play it anymore.

nu-uh, you can’t make me!!! if you touch my precious purgatus staff i’m gonna review bomb you swedes!!! dont even think about adding an extra 5 second cooldown to the turn the game off ability

I can see the posts claiming that this weapon was balanced if they nerf it…
The weapon has a cleave problem, however, the psyker unbalance is not restricted to this weapon. I firmly believe it is linked to several psyker talents.

Dude the game would be objectively better if psyker got removed.

truke

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This post, although quite long, is actually more thoughtful.

Summary:

  • The game should be balanced around damnation, havoc is supposed to be unfair.
  • The nerfs make sense to encourage players to consider other options.
  • The buffs are well intentioned but don’t always fix the real problem (lasgun used as an example).

Let’s say that they have chosen to nerf Scums to permit Psyker to be again the only class to record insane amount of damages.
That was a shame that Scums could equal psyker dps!

Wait… I think they nerfed the talent that community has seen as a problem because of Havoc… and so, no, Scums are still unnerfed in reality. They are even… buffed. Yes I am serious.
Look at pre patch notes. Survivability is buffed a lot (+25 toughness, + 1 dodge, like a wind as a base talent for Scums (ouch!!!) etc.) and damages also (channelled devastation splash /damages (OUCH :scream:) + virulent strain that will surely push toxing builds to the OP state)

I might be wrong but Fatshark actually considered that, and those toxin stacks are supposed to be separate and have a VERY low max stack value. So I want to say they are learning?

Soulblaze next, please? :crossed_fingers:

Let’s wait and see the effects in game

But for survivability, they buffed AGAIN, the Scums on this point. Since the launch they have come to a canon glass DPS dealer to a class with good survivability that is still a DPS dealer…
And having DPS + survivability is obviously wrong

(sidenote: I was playing (before Linux :laughing: ) only Scums, so no, I don’t try to destroy this class)

Oh thank the emperor, our hero! Save us from this diversity of thought! Make it so we don’t have to read! Don’t have to think! Please!

I agree, but they’re incapable of doing so and actively disincentivized by the horde of people who start sharting themselves at anything that even slightly resembles a reduction of their power fantasy. And while it’s been a lot of Chinese players it’s not solely them, we’ve got long time forum members like Archon_Dagoth threatening refunds because Hive Scum might have to kill a single elite to get their infinite ammo.

Overall I agree with this post, and OP makes good arguments. Infantry lasguns are still probably going to be underwhelming and I doubt anyone is going to take the ranged cleave node.

Executioner’s Stance is an outdated active ability. The intent of it is that you can sit back and snipe, right? Too bad there’s enemies literally everywhere. Even when I’m playing with a solid team and sticking with them, I find myself having to melee or grenade to make space a lot. VoC gives you that space for free, and then as a bonus makes you invincible.

If FS isn’t going to nerf players and enemies at the same time, then the buffs to the bad tools need to be better.

The OP didn’t just post a ‘no nerfs, only buffs’ rant they actually tried to support their point with reasoning. It’s a bit disappointing to see it met with mockery

Agree your opinion.Enhancement didn’t mach the point.By the way,why people here love to attack the person rather than just discuss calmly?