In some way you are right and i would agree with you if it wasn’t for the nerfs of billhook special attack and exe speed that set the bar on what it means overperforming in vermintide reacently.
that wasn’t based on comparative performance though, that was based on that special attack letting you absolutely clown on anything that could be staggered with it for free. The Exe nerf was based on popularity as far as I know.
Most nerfs, rebalances and buffs of recent were based on the BBB which came more from a place of case by case basis rather than comparative performance. Comparisons are a factor but they need to be tempered by other factors such as the difficulty, talents, roles etc.
5 Likes
Then why nerf exe speed on light to make the weapon only competitive on Mercenary.
To ONE enmey in a game when you face tides of enemies sure that’s overwhelming.
being able to yank any given elite out of an overhead for free, repeatedly, is overpowered, yes.
As for exe I don’t think it needed nerfing but that was a fatshark decision.
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FK with the AS Ult works great with it.
GK with a Shield Weapon and then switching for Elites is one of his best builds.
They’re based on the character/careers that can use them.
Merc/FK/GK can all get Power for Stagger and CC Hordes with it. Daggers rely entirely on dodge, and maybe one push for safety every so often, with RSI causing Horde clear.
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Then being able to deal as much single target damage so fast and safely as dual dagger is overpowered as well.
I nerfed them too! also that logic doesn’t follow to me at all, Billhook and Daggers are very different
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About Fk kinda but not great it’s fine but not really sustainable for long.
And yes it’s uset on gk as single target nuke and then put back not really say really competitive to other builds.
And so what? or overperfoming is somehting objective or is not. You can’t have it both ways.
that’s not how that works…
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If you get overwhelmed by Elites, sure, but that’s what his Ult is for.
I disagree. It’s one of the better Elite removing builds in the game, especially if you run the Heavy Attack Talent. Having access to that Chaos Warrior damage lets you deal with ridiculous scenarios.
That’s my line.
But if you just used it for getting the AS 10 seconds before then you are in truble, sure you can use talent to get ult back if ally is disabled/down or take damage to get ult back faster but not really reliable.
Yes but still doesn’t make use of the lights so not really touched by the nerfs.
ok so let’s break this down
Billhook (current):
- strengths: high damage, good horde clear, strong special attack
- weaknesses: average dodges, high stamina consumption
Daggers (current)
- strengths: high attack speed, high damage, high mobility
- weakness: low stamina, low cleave
Old billhook had 99 dodges and the special attack came without cost. Not even shield weapons can just yank monks or CW out of their attacks in the same way billhook can and it used to be able to do it for free and at pretty low risk.
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You get enough Stamina on him for pushes with a lot of Power, and can dodge to pick off enemies surrounding the Elites, or delay until your next Ult.
Unless you’re the last person standing and getting completely swamped, I don’t think it’s that bad. I’ve played this build quite a bit and found it to be good and deals enough damage to be within the top 1-2 on damage at the same time.
You’re moving the goal posts.
Old billhok still had the high stamina compsuntion on horde cleave that could be mitigated by using les optimal horde clear combo what broke the weapon was the 99 dodges that was correct decision to remove.
The nerf on the special they just increased the alredy present weakness and gave them new extra weakness. Shields may not work the same way but they can work on more than one target so it balances out.
Daggers before: a bit more damage… same weakness.
So in conclusion billohook given huge weakness as nerf, daggers just a bit less damage in the long run…
yet billhook is still one of the best weapons in the game and daggers have been kind of eclipsed by sword and dagger
2 Likes
If you say so i might give it a try i’m not sure it may be enough pushing and dodging aginst lot of bersekers for example but probably depend on the situation. I used to put opportunist on my Fk Exe with As ult but that build has become frustrating especially with the nerf in tankines on FK.
What you mean? The fact the this thread should be about kerillian? Not me that started goin off topic.
Well by your logic this could mean that maybe other victor weapons are just not adequate enough. Probably they should be buffed… ( i’m being sarcastic )
Oh and just to make things clear i don’t really advocate for dual dagger nerfs i just say that the high stagger value and high damage value of the 2 wepons are the same so if one deserve nerf so does the other.
No by my logic that’s not what it means.
my logic:
I’ve also said that comparisons are a slippery slope and not always accurate[sic]
they were both nerfed but they’re also VERY different weapons, comparing them isn’t strictly a good idea since there’s a series of different factors influencing each weapon.
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