Grail Knight by comparison is a weak hero

[Saryk]

@VonDeath

I tend to run out of ammo

This mostly only happens if you’re also shooting trash mobs.
Also which ranged career has no ammo conservation ?!

@Licious-D

do yourself a favour and play with 2h hammer

Tried, it is garbage - or I am. I don’t get the hammer.

[Linition]

I don’t understand how you can run out of ammo just because of the GK.
You don’t just have 1 less ranged character to shoot specials, you also have 1 less ranged character to compete with for limited ammo drops, so more ammo for you.

[Licious-D]

Regularly topping scoreboards with it (that’s not saying too much, I admit), but with the right setup, you just demolish everything. It is a very strong weapon on GK due to his alpha-strike damage bonus, you can stack attack speed very comfortably and still wreck stuff. You can CC patrols with it and with crit-kill talent, occasionally just kill 2 SV with a charged attack while keeping everything else in check. I think it is definitely preferable over xsword, as in the time you are charing your charged attack, 2h hammer has dished out 2 to 3 light attacks.

[Saryk]

I’m just succesfully sticking with the bretsword so far, and have no complaints. I can’t use the hammer properly, I don’t know what the deal is but… it’s like the billhook, can’t see anything in that weapon either. Not my playstyle, I guess ?

[Linition]

Successful with the longsword anywhere but cata? Sure…
Not sure there is any weapon that’s not good enough for difficulties below cata.

[Revy]

Irrelevant information.

[Linition]

No it is not irrelevant. Cata is part of the game. People who don’t play cata may not like that fact, but I pretty much only play cata so for me it is almost 100% of the game, and on cata certain aspects of a weapon can fall off harshly.

[Linition]

No it is not irrelevant. Cata is part of the game. People who don’t play cata may not like that fact, but I pretty much only play cata so for me it is almost 100% of the game, and on cata certain aspects of a weapon can fall off harshly.

[Kitten]

Just recently realised how strong the STR pot on him is, as it’s a guarunteed Patrol kill or a big chunk of Boss damage.

For safety, it’s probably the better pick on that row.

[Mike137]

Yeah, if you use Concoction trait you have an instant ult recharge and 30seconds of increased strength and speed. It trivialises bosses and patrols.

[KKND2]

im glad i didnt buy the career yet lol. gonna wait for it to be on sale for 1 buck

[Perteks]

Yeah listen to guy that point slow movement where grail knight have passive to being faster

[KKND2]

ya at first impression gk didnt seem that useful so i didnt buy him (yet) lol

[TmanDW]

@Linition

Kruber’s shield weapon combos are a joke compared to HM and IB because he has unreliable, if any stamina sustain, no stun duration reduction and weak weapons alongside the shield.

Hard disagree. GK can make great use out of both imperial Sword & Shield and Mace & Shield (BBB version). His damage bonus skills and stronger power attack skills synergise really well with those. On top of that he has a stamina regen talent, which combined with stamina regen and block cost reduction means you never have to run out. His “kill on crit” talent also synergises with BBB version of Mace & Shield amazingly.

If you want to play a shield only run, GK is a great character to do that with. He is in terms of effectiveness with shield weapons about on par with IB and HM, not a lot weaker. And he can certainly make good use of a shield weapon secondary.

@Linition

so far GK with Bretonnian shield seems far more competitive in cata than his other classes with their shields.

Latest iteration BBB Footknight is a little better than GK when you limit yourself to strictly shields.

[anon75893681]

Why buy a career for it’s usefullness. Why not buy because he has a cool theme and is well designed. Buying a career for talents or things that can change is not the best idea.

[KKND2]

ya thats the thing. gk doesnt look cool to me. he looks like a court fool/clown with that outfit lmao. also the lady is a elf so … /spit

edit: why is that happy face so massive O_o!?

[Revy]

@Linition

No it is not irrelevant. Cata is part of the game. People who don’t play cata may not like that fact, but I pretty much only play cata so for me it is almost 100% of the game, and on cata certain aspects of a weapon can fall off harshly.

Its not irrelevant information because you are talking about Cata, its irrelevant information because Grail Knight being “decent” isn’t the issue, its that 80% of the other careers are just objectively better.

BTW, 90% of the feedback here is about Legend or Cata, its generally safe to assume that most people here play on those difficulties regularly.

[Revy]

@Kitten

Just recently realised how strong the STR pot on him is, as it’s a guarunteed Patrol kill or a big chunk of Boss damage.

For safety, it’s probably the better pick on that row.

The str pot is prolly his best talent overall, its great how useful they can be, and the kill counter is adjusted for weaves so its useful there as well.

[TurboTrodan]

This is semi-related to the thread but I wanted to say what could make GK better. At the moment I feel like he is very vulnerable to certain things and here are some changes I believe will help.

Bretonnian sword and shield:
This is a good weapon. It has good crowd control, good elite damage and high dodge count for a shield. However, since its only on GK I think it should be buffed to have more utility.

• The sword and shield should be able to walk forward against ratling guns, and not get pushed back when the rat is firing.

• Stormfiends fire should be block-able with the sword and shield, as GK is a boss killer. His biggest threat is the stormfiend when it comes to bosses as the main way you kill them is with ranged weapons.

• Maybe a 5-10% increase in attack speed would be nice. I sometimes find myself trying to crowd control and get hit by a random skaven slave. Not that big of an issue though.

Grail Knight himself:

• As a perk/ talent, I think he should have higher crit chance, like a lot of Kruber’s other careers have. GK seems to very reliant on his Virtue of Knightly Templar to secure kills against elites and bosses, so an increase in crit chance would help.

• His duties need to be way less RNG based. His strength potion one is the best because of this on Cata, where grims are rarely taken. I suggest that we make the other two based on offensive and defence. One with increased power and attack speed. The other one with DMG reduction and maybe block cost reduction/increase stamina or dodge count, perhaps the three combined? I don’t think the health regen should be mixed in with any of these. Maybe its own thing as the third, but I suggest keeping the strength potion as the third would be better.

• Add the riposte mechanic to his ult. Getting hit during your ult is an annoying issue and I think this would be a better option than being invincible like during FK’s.

[SlashKex]

Read through the entire thing. 3 topics that came up: Boss killing power compared to Bh, Shade etc., the main question; is he weak by comparison, and comparison to Merc.

Careers trivialising bosses/Lords are nothing new and but I’ll just copy my thoughts from this thread: Grail Knight trivializes all monsters and lords

@SlashKex

To my knowledge all bosses and Lords have some level of damage reduction. This could be increased and/or perhaps introduce a damage capping mechanic for bosses and Lords that simply does not allow the player to deal more than X damage within 0.something seconds. I think this would work best if the damage was % based rather than a flat number.
Also, I do not know the time interval between GK’s ult’s first and second hits while dual daggers count as 2 hits and the same goes for BH’s Double Shotted, hence limiting damage per hit rather than a short time period would leave us with outliers.

My experience: I have taken GK to weaves; grey ones specifically, Cata+, hypertwitch and cata FoW

Is GK weak by comparison? Yes, without question. Grail Knight has actual glaring weaknesses, areas of combat(ranged not included) in which he does not excel in and he cannot be built in a way that makes him able to deal with everything. Good. You may actually have to back off from an engagement rather than going in without a single care. Forcing you to work together with a teammate that can cover for your WEAKNESS in a CO-OP game. What a time to be alive.

This is most apparent in FoW and hypertwitch where you have a lot of everything coming at you and you need to be able to kill them. Depending on your weapon/property/talent choices you will struggle against at least 1 type of enemy.

Is GK weak? The higher the difficulty the more useful he becomes. Proxying a strength pot at every 200th kill shouldn’t even need an explanation. With Kruber’s melee arsenal he can: stagger(Virtue of Ideal gives 10% power on kill so even for a shield build, taking Enhanced Power is redundant) rather well, and regardless of what melee combo you take, you will be able to kill almost anything at melee range. Take weapons which have weakness that are covered by your teammates weapons/ult. E.g. UC w/ Flail will stagger everything in sight so you can go full damage with M&S, Xsword. and Audacity. You lack armor damage? Bring the 2h hammer and so on.

Compared to Merc? GK is better at dealing damage because of Knight’s Challenge and Virtue of the Ideal, whilst Merc has better cleave because of his talents giving power(Power =/= Damage) and his passive, Hitting the Sweet Spot, and Merc’s ult brings more to the team in the form of thp and DR. At 1 stack of Virtue, GK does slightly less damage and at 3 stacks,20% crit power and 10% chaos you can 1 crit headshot a CW on cata(On legend you can 1 shot headshot CW with 20% chaos at 3 stacks) with the Xsword.

As a career Merc is better(a topic for a different thread) but GK does more damage.