WHC with Fervency, Flense, Assassin puts out as much dps as zealot if you aren’t a potato on your headshots and has high swift slaying uptime because of his bonus crit chance
Shade with Dual Daggers or Sword & Dagger absolutely does just as much dps as zealot if not more without needing conc pots or multiple bosses
GK with the crit talent does not out damage every single career. Grail Knight has no bonuses to his crit chance, that talent legit leaves him worse off than WHC. He’s not overtuned…at all
You can walk through cata chaos pats with multiple careers idk what difference that makes here.
It doesn’t put out anywhere near as much damage even if you hit only headshots. Main reason is you can’t play anywhere near as agressively. Your ult is your only save and it’s on a long CD, especially compared to Zealot. You can’t trade hits like you can with zealot and stay alive. You spend more time blocking and repositioning and less time attacking than you do with zealot. You can argue that standing still with infinite HP against an endless horde that the damage is the same but that isn’t practical.
Dual daggers horde damage on cata is terrible because of it’s capped cleave. Especially against dense hordes. Definitely doesn’t out damage zealot. Can out damage zealot against single elites and bosses, otherwise struggles to stagger and effectively kill large groups of elites while ult is down. Also has to play much less aggressive, due to being unable to trade hits.
It isn’t just the crit talent, but that carries a lot of the weight, the dual strike ult on a short CD carries a lot too. If you don’t think GK is busted you are playing is wrong
No, you really can’t. In a 4 man group sure. Solo? No.
In summary. Whatever you are playing is not the same game I’m playing.
This all sounds like a you problem rather than a class problem
I find it ironic that you can say this while managing to be so wrong about everything else. Grail Knight does less damage than shade (less boss damage than BH too if they’re landing consistent headshots) and is also less durable, less maneuverable and has less dps (barring ult) than Slayer and Zealot
I swear to you I’m not lying to you when I tell you WHC’s utility puts him on par with Zealot’s damage output, so much that I’d recommend WHC for late game over Zealot by virtue of not needing to yeet all of his health away in order to be at max power. The skill ceiling is higher because you can’t eat hits like Zealot and do need a little precision on those headshots, but his utility and tagging bonus closes that gap fast. It’s so, so very good!
I never thought I’d see the day a Zealot Player complained about how tough it is to play Zealot with everyone else being so inconsiderate. I mean, Zealot is the class I play when I’m too plastered to see the keyboard properly so you can’t convince me ever that it’s somehow suddenly like playing RV with 1H hammer when everyone bumps a zealots healing.
At this point it might be better to go and have a good argument with a fence post in the garden.
Though I see what you’re saying and I see your point, I’d say I have about 100 hours of legend Zealot behind me and haven’t encountered that many Waystalkers running Amaranthe. I have to admit the GK healing does change the deal a bit, but if we exclude this and only take into account amaranthe, this thread is an overreaction. Yes, numerically you are undoubtedly better with 6 stacks than 4, but playing a Zealot at 50% health is no big deal and you will certainly not underperform.
It is annoying to be healed when playing a Zealot, but if you’re shooting crossbow bolts in someone’s face for it, I see you as the bigger a*hole. Antagonizing other players and yourself at the same time won’t help you make your point…
Now ; the Grail Knight situation : this healing can and will heal you to full health, and this is indeed a problem. It’s like wearing a Natural Bond necklace, you’re shooting yourself in the foot by doing that, and I agree that adding a passive to the Zealot saying allies talents and items cannot heal you at all would solve those problems.
Judging by your take on dps, you assume 0 headshots or crits. You undervalue anything with finesse multipliers and overvalue raw power bonus. Pyro dagger is insanely good. It had the same finesse as DD. Pyro gets tons of bonus crit and extra dmg from hunter. I can link you gameplay if you’d like.
I propose changing Font of Zeal thusly: instead of giving up temp health for heal share, give up temp health generation to gain the ability to not be healed by any effect – including auras and healing items. This also means that you cannot have your wounds cleared if you displease Sigmar enough that he lets you get downed during a run. Then you can keep your precious max dps and the rest of us don’t have to listen to you whine.
Or maybe just get good and learn how to play successfully without relying on the crutch of bonus dps?
what’s even the point of this post? it’s just “I don’t care” with a smug tone. If you don’t care just don’t say anything, wanting a class to function properly in QP is really not a crutch.
I actually do care. Adding a passive ability that forces everyone who plays Zealot to not receive healing is a bad idea. Not everyone who plays Zealot wants to go max dps – especially newer players who get hit too often to play at low health and need extra survivability. That’s why other talents like Armour of Faith exist.
EDIT: Here’s an alternate suggestion – Fatshark could revert Zealot back to how it used to work, where temp health elminates stacks of Fiery Faith. Zealot’s stacks are kinda stupidly OP anyway; it’s silly that you can keep the bonuses without having the danger of being at low health.
Which would be a general win for quickplay and teams as the tagging damage alone makes having a WHC more worthwhile. But it is aside the point.
While he may be on the other extreme he has a point. We have generally this strange conception that high reward should come with a higher risk, at least in a game which wants to be challenging. However, the Zealot is a complete counter-point to this. He is max reward with low risk. Even after the increased THP decay he still is low risk. He is the only class with a passive that makes him unkillable which should be more than enough of a safety net.
While I don’t advocate the extreme case I DO think it makes sense that if a Zealot wants to play with an additional safety net (full THP) then he should get less reward.
In this sense, when he is at full permanent health he gets no bonus, when at 1 health he gets full bonus, when at one permanent health but full THP he gets half bonus. So if he has THP instead of green health it will halve the effect of his stacks. That seems fair to me. FS can adjust some talents so that Zealots can decide how much risk they are willing to take for how much reward (also his damage bonus should not apply to range, that is just strange).
The Zealot should be given a full rework to not be be the only career disadvantaged by a game mechanic that gives an advantage to all the other careers. This should remove any need for opt-outs. In earlier versions of the game, a Zealot full of temp health used to get no power increase. They changed him to be less riskier (and less fun) by not counting temp health in power calculations and adding a temp health increasing talent, encouraging the player to be at low permanent health at all times.
Sure, but if they don’t want to go max dps they can just play normally? Or not pick zealot if they want to not do zealot things. It’s really just the team regen I dislike, and bots autohealing because they have no idea how the class works.
Disabling those things wouldn’t impact any but a tiny small amount of people who want to play some weird, regen zealot meme team, while making QP more enjoyable and less RNG dependent for basically all the rest of the people playing zealot.
Why would you ever pick zealot if this is the case? WHC is just objectively better at that point, he’s already arguably the stronger class.
So opting out of healing on zealot is a “bad idea” because not everyone wants to use the career’s toolkit, but this is supposed to be a good idea? Which zealot player do you think wants that change?
WHC is definitely better in higher tier content with more competent players. He offers so much more to the team than Zealot, and is generally about as good if not better at killing. The thing with Zealot is that he’s really easy to play in stuff like Legend and Champion, which is where most people play, and that’s where the opinion comes from that Zealot is an overpowered class, and in those difficulties he arguably is. But in Cataclysm and above, Zealot definitely gets outclassed by others.
Hell, compare Mercenary to Zealot, he can get 10% more power, with 10% less attack speed (not counting ult), 5% crit chance, innate extra cleave, good horde clearing weapons, comparable tHP generation, good DR AND he offers infinitely more to the team than Zealot. Zealot actually gives nothing to the team, he’s just a guy who’s tanky and does damage, he has no CC ability, no buffs to his team that he gives, no crowd control weapons he can really use apart from billhook and I guess flail. Mercenary is insane compared to Zealot.
I don’t know if you guys are just relatively new to the game (I don’t mean that as an insult, just honestly don’t know), but Zealot’s temp health used to eliminate stacks of Fiery Faith. And it wasn’t just at launch – Zealot worked that way for a long time. And plenty of people still played Zealot; it’s a fun class. Zealot and Handmaiden were my first two favorite classes – strong melee focus with a mobility ult. I honestly feel like it was a mistake when they changed that; now Zealot is a relatively mindless hold W and spam left click FTW experience. (Yes, that’s hyperbole, but I do have multiple friends on Steam who play Zealot as their go-to when they’re too drunk to play other classes.)