Zealot and rejuvunating locus

how come we still have a class that relies completely on temp health, and a class that gives out green health until half full. that means i can only realistically play half of my potential? its really not fun playing whilst slowly getting slower and weaker by another player. im not saying get rid of the elven talent, im saying maybe it should just not effect zealot, or gives out temp health at the same rate? like how bardins smoke bomb, krubers shout or sienna’s balm bomb. she’s literally the only class that gives out green health. dont get my wrong kerillian helping out all other team members with this talent is amazing. but it honestly feels like i cant even play this game as zealot anymore. its too frustrating to see the work i put in to get to zero. to them build it up, to then slowly trickle away.
i cant even play on a private game because the bots will just heal me because even on a legend dificulty there is healing everywhere?

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Grail Knight can also provide green health, with some rng.

Honestly, at this point I’d prefer a rework of the zealot.
The class is just broken anyway, it’s far from the high risk / high reward class it was intended (I guess?) to be. The “risk” is relying on temp health, but hes also the God of generating temp health. Once you get to max stacks it’s all reward with zero risk.

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I’ve not noticed krubers quests making an effect on the green health? Maybe it does and i haven’t noticed because it builds up slow enough that you can still mange your health with it.

I would appreciate a rework of it too, but I’m honestly thinking surely as a quick fix it’d be easier to either turn off the effects of Rejuv locus or to turn it to white health.

There was suggestion that zealot should get stack bu hurting himself.

When melee is equipped, you press R and your health decrease, passive stack increase. You don’t have to worry when ranged career kill all ambient unit because your green health won’t decay. Also synergy well with any kind of healing.

Remove curse resistance.

Make any bots in your group pick up tomes so they don’t heal you.

I played Zealot for 2 months straight for 100 mission challenge and had no problem staying at max stacks with a GK and WS in a group.

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A lot of things interfere with Zealot’s Fiery Faith, a rework would be nice… or just a simple passive that converts all healing into temporary health.

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That would also be a good ability, but I still feel that an easier fix would be to just change the talent to give temp health. I don’t understand why it hasn’t been done, no other class gets to give out green health, so why does kerillian? It feels like that class is the malcontent not zealot

The problem i have found is that even after making bots pick up tomes with the new update they race to pickup the health pack and race to heal you, now that on any other class would be fine. Also the curse resistance just makes my health less and therefore the buff ratios smaller, which doesn’t help nor hinder it just makes for playing with less health. I still feel its more of a kerillian issue, I’ve played kerillian loads and it is really beneficial but if she’s healing the party then it should be temp health, otherwise green health

But that would also lower the amount of thp that you can amass, meaning you have less wiggle room. Having that curse resistance (+20% hp amulet) also get’s you over that sweet spot of 100 hp, meaning ‘Heart of Iron’ won’t procc from one overhead (on legend, or a swipe from elites on cata). Taking ‘Calloused Without and Within’ can’t give you the same result, eg.

What about quickplay, which most people that run into this problem are playing?
You can’t pick qp Waystalker’s talents as you can with bots, you can’t force them to not take the grim when GK has the right Duty (or in this case, wrong Duty). And some of them are so new to the game/uneducated about mechanics, but are trying to be helpful, that they will heal the Zealot no matter what. Even writing everyone in chat that you don’t want to be healed doesn’t matter if they don’t read the chat. And i like to play standard legend and helping newer players out, most don’t respond at all, but some are very interested and stay for a couple of games, asking stuff. From time to time i want to play Zealot, and those autoheals are highly impractical to his passive ‘Fiery Faith’ and the talents ‘Castigate’ and ‘Holy Fortitude’. In my opinion there must be an exception for stuff like this, and i can only think of one other impractical situation where a passive get’s blocked (Mercenary’s ‘No more Laughin’ Now’ by ‘Hellborg’s Tutelage’).

There has to be an easier solution for this.

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Again… one of the Grail Knight quests provide green health regen.
And how is Kerillian the bad guy here? Health regen is a boon to literally everyone but the zealot.

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That’s about as scuffed as the ol’ “just make it so Locus doesn’t affect Zealot” proposition. Hard disagree from me, hoss.

This issue has been beaten to death.

But that’s the point? So you can easily get stacks with less effort.

Why are you using that instead of Flagellant’s Zeal?

Which is why I say remove curse resistance. Even at full hp, you’re still getting 4 stacks so it’s easier to get 6 by letting slave or clan rats poke you.

It’s not rocket science.

Beginning of game, open chat, say, “do not heal me unless I’ve been downed.”

If you can’t communicate with your team, then playing solo might suit you better.

Removing 1 trait is an easy solution.

Bots will NOT replace tomes with healing items if you use the Chat Wheel to command them to pick up the book.

No, it doesn’t. You can use 20% increased hp on your necklace and still get 6 stacks through normal gameplay but if someone were to heal you, you’ll only lose 2 stacks instead of all 6.

Zealot rework is best. But making Faith stacks percentage based and lowering his health to base 100 would also go a long way to improving him. Even with reduced max health he’d still have more tankiness than Slayer or Grail Knight by virtue of his passives and thp gain.

I’d prefer a rework as well, but otherwise what you’ve mentioned is the best option. It’s fitting for Zealot to be living on burrowed time anyway. It would be a buff, but I’m not that concerned about it when Zealot is suboptimal compared to WHC and most here weren’t convinced WHC needed much in the way of nerfs, so it should be fine. The best alternatives I can see are a rework, a passive that makes Zealot immune to healing from allies in any form o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶e̶d̶u̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶u̶r̶a̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶c̶r̶e̶e̶p̶.

A bit unrelated to the topic, but I wouldn’t mind a trade-off on one of the Waystalker’s regeneration talents along the lines of it no longer affecting allies, but filling her up to full. Working up until full health was never that powerful in my opinion, but none the less interesting and it would provide a good competition for the bonus to cooldown regeneration. In fact, I think that having to choose between health, ammunition or cooldown would be very interesting as well.

Maybe WHC needs some tweaking.
He isn’t blatantly OP or unkillable, but he is pretty stacked and his team wide buffs are invaluable.
Particularly Witch-Hunt; a sizeable party wide damage increase for no effort.
Flense could be another too.

He’s pretty much the most valuable career or very close to it, potentially affecting the pick rate of BH and Zealot which may or may not be a problem depending on who you ask. :+1:

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In my opinion, it’s mostly Flense, some ranged breakpoints due to headshot passive/talent that make ranged careers look bad and potentially Fervency. On top of this is the Rapier’s very high critical damage (which unfortunately lets WHC crit bodyshot Cata elites when combined with Assassin and Witch-Hunt) and the Billhook’s synergy with Flense. Several small tweaks would be enough I think. A few talents (Riposte, Templar’s Knowledge and I Shall Judge You All) are also in need of boosts.

Witch-Hunt is very powerful. It can make bringing a bad WHC over a good Zealot worth it. I’d make some suggestions for changes to it but I wouldn’t know where to start considering all of the breakpoints it would affect.

I wasn’t expecting much to come out of your answer, yet here i am, still astonished.

Having a bigger cushion you can rely on in the time of need is always better, what is wrong with thinking that?

I guess you were trying to say ‘Feel Nothing’, the talent in the 30 row; ‘Heart of Iron’ is a passive, i can’t ‘use’ it in the way i think you are meaning. Of course i’m using ‘Flagellant’s Zeal’, the cooldown reduction is just too good.

The whole ‘letting yourself get hit to activate your passives and talents’ is smth about the Zealot that isn’t really practical (in Vermintide). Try to explain to new players that they have to do this, as damage avoidance is one of, if not the prime principle of Vermintide, and every guide will tell them this. And i’ll set knowledge of comparable characters with similar mechanics as Zealot not as a prerequisite to play Vermintide.
So, to do this not only once at the beginning of the map, but multiple times throughout the mission and let yourself be hit 1 time or a maximum of 2 times, not 3, as with your promoted lower hp pool anything more will either procc ‘Heart of Iron’ or down you. You can’t rely on ‘Heart of Iron’ to work it’s magic for you anytime you need it, it has a 120s cooldown.
Add latency into the mix, and you are bound to run into problems.

Communication is a two way street is what i was trying to say. I can do my best and the other player might not look into chat or has voice chat disabled.
I get what you are trying to say, but i can’t see what you said without transfering it to new players. You should never advice new players that can’t yet play the game to the same level you are playing it with the statement: ‘Play solo, you are not suited for group play’. How can they become better then? Or should they forever more only play solo? I think it should be an active duty for veteran players to help newer players to understand the game better. Only that can result in a at least sustaining playerbase, which could result in more content coming form Fatshark than initially planned by them.

You actually got me to think of an idea. You said removing a trait, i was thinking of adding one (to the amulet). Make it similar to Natural Bond, but instead of giving green hp, it’ll give you thp (or even that same thing like in V1, the shield going over your hp). As NB already doesn’t stop thp degeneration this shouldn’t be a problem, you could maybe add a little buff/debuff to thp degeneration to make it more worthwhile.
Important part: Make it so that only active healing gives you green hp/removes a wound (you could make it different to NB so healing items while heal you to their full potential. Or don’t.), so it disables the two causes for problems and future ones, too.

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Stacked in the way he is both an extremely strong DPS and supportive career.
I think he would be fine without Witch-Hunt.

Killing Shot is strong enough tbh, a tweaked version of Riposte could be a main passive + talents building off, rewarding or potentially making Riposte easier.

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Well for starters the problem lies not with the elf since GK also gives green hp, and the GK version heals to max as well. There also exists healshare and just plain medkits.

There’s a very simple fix to this which is to give zealot a passive which either blocks healing from allies or converts it to temp. There’s just no reason that allies should be able to ruin zealots entire reason for existing by running certain talents or RNG. Quick fix this and then look into more ambitious stuff like reworks.

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