honest question why doesnt Relic Blade have Momentum?
its available on the new Force Greatswords as well as the Thunder Hammer, Heavy Eviscerator, and even Ogryn weapons like the Bully Club and Cleaver.
but for some reason instead of giving the Relic Blade Momentum it was given Syphon…
the diffrence between the 2 Blessings?
Momentum=
Hitting at least 3 enemies with an attack, restores 12-15% toughness.
Syphon=
Hitting at least 3 enemies with an attack {while weapon Special is active}, restores 10-16% toughness.
so you need to use a special attack to gain back toughness… Why?
it seems like the Syphon blessing is unnecessary, a restriction against the Relic Blade,
i think Syphon should just be removed and just give the Relic Blade Momentum.
or give it Momentum and Keep Syphon, that could be cool as well.
This is the one thing that confused me as well, like, I get wanting to make a new toy to screw around with, but why make it just ‘momentum but worse’?
Like, I’d think this would be great if it gave like 25% toughness or something, just a massive amount so that the fact it only happens half the time would make sense. A different flavored momentum for the weapon instead of just ‘this is momentum but only half the time for the same effect’.
Or, as the name implies, make it so it also drops your heat by like 5% when you hit 3 enemies to. Like so many enemies are sapping the heat from your blade as you cut or something…
Idk, just feels like something that’s ‘neat in theory’ but then they gave it tiny numbers, like most of what they put on the blade really…
(there’s a reason the one I finally centered on was just Wrath and Rampage, because they provided the best bonuses for the least effort, verses all these blessings that are really cool sounding but have abysmally tiny numbers, making them just, not really work).
Momentum would be nice to have, yes. I think they should add it.
Maybe add some more Blessings that interact with the blades charged state as well.
Maybe they could add a blessing that gives +5% critical hit chance and makes critical hits shoot a shockwave out, staggering and somewhat damaging enemies, 4 second cooldown so it can’t be spammed. Call it “Burst Wave” or something.
Nobody really uses momentum either though so I don’t think there’s much point replacing one dead blessing with another. Something that aids mobility could be nice. Like +move speed while active or similar.
i mean i dont think so, it keeps the Zealot in the fight longer.
no matter how good your dodge is, you will get hit eventually.
and momentum keeps your toughness up so you dont lose health.
i dont think its a dead Blessing, as for a toughness build(200toughness)
15-16% toughness on hitting 3 targets(which isnt hard during a horde rush)
thats 30-32 toughness, which could buffer your health against chip damage.
Point is you can get more than enough toughness gen to cover when you get hit without sacrificing a blessing slot to it as well. If you get hit just press F if on an IoD build. If not at very least vicious offering or second wind got your back.
Momentum is just very superfluous on most Zealot builds. You’d be crazy to give up wrath or an energy uptime blessing for it.
This is completely dependant on your own abilities.
I very rarely take stray hits and when I do, I dodge the next attack(s) which fill my toughness back to 100% while I keep swinging. Either that or I use fury to avoid more hits while getting 50% back. I never needed momentum to give me toughness back.
Momentum would never be useful to me so why would “momentum you have to turn on manually” be useful?
There’s two problems with the design for syphon: If you take a hit, turning on your wepon is not what you want to be doing and if you need to use powermode for getting your toughness back, you will run into situations where you need it for armor but not have it.
I have a single build that uses momentum and it’s an Ironhelm build. It’s purpose is to make me still have the ability to activate the hammer into a horde and get a more than normal amounts of toughness. I only use this because having slaugtherer and headtaker to reach certain breakpoints was too unreliable and I wanted a whole 4 Talent points to spend somewhere else than the top left of the tree.
Momentum is useful here because it frees up talent points and doesn’t impact my breakpoints in a realistic way. It would probably still be better to just run a different blessing and play more properly but sometimes you want a “for fun” option.
Neither do I and you even quote me agreeing.
The reality of blessings akin to momentum is that if you’re still getting use out of it, you have room to imporve and past a certain point, you don’t need momentum anymore. There’s nothing wrong with getting use out of momentum etc. It just doesn’t mean that those blessings are super useful in general.
This is clearly a choice. You can see also the contrary. You sacrifice one blessing to get a lot of points that you can invest in interesting talents.
I use momentum on my psyker btw (for the reason I want to use a lot the sword and that you get few toughness regen on psyker by playing with a melee weapon, unless I missed something).
But on zealot I have never got a reason to use it.
By the way, I feel that, for relic blade, momentum is not needed and should not been added. This sword can stagger so easily… that I don’t feel that you’re in danger. The main difficulty actually is to manage your heat.
thats good for you, but for some of us, the buffer that momentum grants can help us in higher level play, i have a close friend that swears by momentum because he has a diability that affects his eye hand coordination, and its momentum that lets him run Auric level missions.
its not, which is why im asking Syphon to be replaced with momentum.
agreed.
that sounds interesting, i may have to try a build like that.
agreed, and sometimes it can help some people with eye hand issues.
i had an issue quoting, for that i was responding to Alsozara.
i didnt mean for you to feel that the Dead blessing comment was toward you,
for that i apologize.
agreed again, its not that i think momentum is under-preforming,
i mean i would love for momentum to get a buff, but mostly my issue is Syphon,
personally i think that Syphon is a worse momentum for no reason.
and Fatshark should just replace Syphon with momentum.
It doesn’t really matter how much toughness momentum etc. give you, eventually you can outgrow the need to run it entirely.
I will never have something bad to say about anybody running it because there are legit reasons to have it. It’s just a utility blessing that you can entirely compensate with skill. I’m obviously not trying to sh!t on your buddy, or anyone else for that matter, having a disability is a different case entirely.
I understand this is an opinion and everyone can hold pretty much any opinion they like, no problem.
I just find it really hard to argue that momentum isn’t a strict upgrade over syphon.
Naturally it’s intended to work the way it does but do you really like that aspect of the blessing so much that you’d rather it stay than be replaced with an objectively better counterpart?
What I’m saying is: everything that’s unique about syphon is precisely why it’s worse than momentum. That’s the problem I have with it.
I’d rather the blessing be actually useful than unique. Doesn’t stop it from being unique AND useful, that’s an option too. And if the weapon is going to have a toughness on hit blessing, make it momentum or do something even when the weapon isn’t turned on. It could return some heat on killing more than one enemy per swing or something along that line.
I did not say that.
I think that it is a balance choice to enhance the gameplay when you use the special.
Several blessings on this weapon has such interactions with the special.
Yeah I definitely feel like the talent could just be buffed to reasonably accommodate both viewpoints here. Not just number buffs though like additional bonuses added to the effect.
E.g. Hitting 3 or more enemies with an attack regains 10% toughness.
Additionally, killing an elite/special with a powered attack regains 10% toughness.
Doesn’t have to be that effect or those numbers but you get the idea. It could retain an interaction with powered state while having a bit more consistency and not feeling like a strict momentum downgrade.
Yeah, I know that. Poor choice of words from me there.
I understand where you’re coming from and I agree in the sense that it’s thematic to turn the power greatsword on and it enhances your gameplay in more than just one way. That’s good thematic design.
It’s not actually good design from a balance PoV as everything that’s unique and thematic about it, is why it’s objectively worse than something that already existed before they added it to the game.
Exactly.
If you wanted a better toughness on hit blessing → replace it with momentum.
If you wanted something that retains the thematic design → make it less situationally useful. / make it less of a direct downgrade to momentum.
It giving you momentum only “half the time” is not exactly useful. It’s not useless but momentum is already a pick that needs you to have a reason and syphon is just worse so why does it have a restriction? It makes 0 sense.
I love this idea too! The first effect stays active in both modes and the 2nd effect gives you a benefit for using the weapon correctly.
and that you get few toughness regen on psyker by playing with a melee weapon, unless I missed something).