Frag Bomb:
1 use per grenade pickup
Big AoE with big-ish damage (but won’t kill things outside of the sweet spot near the center)
Missile Launcher
4 uses per grenade pickup
Big AoE with MASSIVE damage, kills everything.
Whyyyyyyyy?
5 Likes
One was made by a person who had some idea of balance. The other was made by a person who thinks that allowing players to wipe everything with a key press is good for the franchise foture.
One person is wrong.
19 Likes
I do think the Frag Bomb could use a slight damage Buff so it actually kills everything.
I will agree that the HiveScum missile launcher should be more limited on how many they can carry.
The missile launcher is a very good tool and I don’t think nerfing too much about it would be good but I also don’t see why the Hivescumm gets to carry more then 2 horde wiping missile launchers while poor ogryn only gets one Frag bomb that can barely wipe most hordes.
4 Likes
give both characters one shot/throw from a pickup and make the frag the default damage threshold.
same for chem grenades and suddenly the fetus deletus of entire ogryn hordes stops.
aint higher math but worse sales for the i-win crowd, so …. not gonna happen
4 Likes
Why? The only thing frag bomb doesn’t outright kill are Crushers, scab ragers and maulers.
Why? Ability to remove dozens of enemies, including carapace varieties, with one out of 4 rockets is pretty bad for the game. Frag bomb is just about fine, because acts as this one time only reset button, you thrown to rescue a really bad situation.
Boom Bringer is just another example of recent changes to weapons or talents, which are outrageously broken / OP. For some reason part of the community goes “Hey, why don’t be buff everything to that level? I mean I can kill a Crusher far quicker with XYZ?”. Broken / OP weapons and builds give some casual players a sense of being “good” at the game, by side-stepping the core of it. The core game is as much about dishing out damage, as ACTIVELY avoiding it.
This is pure madness. I want to engage in the game, and fight enemies in melee. That’s where the game identity lies. Not “press X to win” gameplay options.
6 Likes
Something that you get 1 of should be better and something you can have up to 4 of should be less good, definitely. I don’t think they found the right balance with chem grenade either, but at least that took some semblance of a nerf. Rocket should follow and frag should definitely be just a little beefier. I don’t really want to see all the elites die, but I think the radius could be somewhere around where it is on big boom, with a larger inner blast cone as well…
5 Likes
The hive scum missile launcher is a very important tool for getting out of sticky situations with crushers and other enemies quickly.
I do believe that a HiveScum carrying 4 is overkill but main thing I would do is nerf it to allow him to carry a maximum of 2, even with the extra blitz talent. Maybe reduce blast radius a tiny bit as well but not a lot.
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Higher difficulties need tools like the missile launcher in many situations for how frequently the game gives a challenge.
In my opinion the game should be balanced towards a mix of Damnation and Auric difficulties. That way veteran players can have more challenges but more casual players can just stomp heretics for fun on lower difficulties.
From my experience it is very hard to find gernade boxs on these difficulties so you typically are stuck with any grenade you bring.
The missile launcher makes a perfect panic button but having 4 is just too much.
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Ogryn’s Frag Bomb suffers the most on higher difficulties.
Since you can only carry one it make it so you have to constantly dance with the idea of when is the best time to use it.
It also sometimes struggles to kill bulwarks and is mainly effective against enemies you can already kill with the right loadout.
This means the main times you want to use a Frag Bomb is when you have a horde of crushers or when you have a boss and on higher difficulties you also have to choose which boss fight or crusher horde that you think the Frag Bomb is more necessary for.
1 Like
yeah the bazooka needs a nerf they only buffed it because chem grenade was so good -.- bad balance. 2 Charges?
perhaps could make frag 2 charges or even Bigga more horde damage
1 Like
How about you fight them instead? I mean we have been playing the game for 1000s of hours before that. Elites are supposed to be part of the core combat skill check in Tide games, players should have no instant delete button for them. Stuff like Smite, vet krak printing, multiple weapons which can basically 2-3 Crushers at high speed are not healthy for the game.
Lack of nerfs to those and other high dps options are the reason why the game balance is so out of whack, including Fatshark desperately trying to compensate by elite HP buffs, and increasingly more unpalatable Havoc difficulty modifiers.
6 Likes
Having combat skill checks are fine but there is situations where sometimes having a single instant win button is essential.
Mutant suddenly rushes in through a horde of enemies and throws you in a corner of crushers.
Getting a Burgle in a tight staircase that gobbles your only other teammate.
There is moments where something happens and you need to deal a massive amount of damage fast to get back on your feet. Things happen and it is nice to have an emergency item that you can use in a pinch when things get hairy.
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Somethings are a bit strong.
I play HiveScum and I personally think HiveScum has a really crazy infinity gun build with the Dual Auto-Pistols and that should probably get nerfed.
I don’t play Pysker so I don’t know much about them. Based off my experience from the Pyskers I have played with, I think smite is annoying for the infinity stun it does.
I don’t play veteran much so I don’t know anything about Krak printing but the Krak gernade itself seems okay to me.
I really don’t know almost any weapons that can 2 hit a crusher (Aside from a certain ogryn pickaxe build) so the majority of weapon balance is okay to me, aside from poor Ogryn who has some ranged weapons that could get a slight buff.
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in my opinion, the missile launcher from HiveScum is mainly strong because they can carry so many of them.
Having a panic button is fine with me, using a missile launcher everytime you see a crusher is overkill.
I think this is a very easy equation.
Nuke = large radius, wipes most elites, staggers everydamnthing
Bazooka = smaller radius, kills crushers tho
Maybe it’s my tiny Ogryn brain but I feel like the biggest boom should remain on Ogryn. Bazooka already provides the benefit of precision aiming (and weak spot damage?) + 4 charges + kills crushers.
The fact that the bazooka has (afaict) the same radius killzone as the nuke is simply ridiculous. Decreasing it would reward more precise shots which feels on-brand for Scum, who gets to keep their ejecto-seato out of Crusher corners while not eating Ogryn’s lunch.
Also a side note that I think the grenade toss vs. direct fire ‘application’ of grievous bodily harm is a meaningful dichotomy. It’s made me appreciate the 'nade more 
3 Likes
While im a veteran main and i do think rocket launcher is so much better, i must admit there is one big difference: as veterans with 1-2 perks we got considerable regenaration fo those grenades. I think the rocket launcher should just get nerfed a bit.
The missile launcher basically got overbuffed, when it was originally released, it wasn’t particularly good, and then it got dialed up to 11. It was originally basically a Krak Grenade with an extra firing delay and no sticky magnetic ability, which didn’t have much value. Then it got way boomier on top of getting more ammo.
It’s also something of an odd case, a Krak missile is by far the single most powerful weapon available in Darktide, this is a weapon that will turn a Space Marine into little red gibs and can absolutely kill demigods like Custodes. They should be powerful, but not as an AoE weapon (that’s what Frag missiles are for), if they’re going to impact multiple targets, it really should be as a shaped charge cleaving in a straight line, kinda like the Plasma Gun.
2 Likes
Hey this is another cool idea to make the bazooka more interesting and less of a nuke ripoff! Giving it a non-circular blast radius would work well with the aiming mechanic and reward quick-thinking and positioning. Hive Scum’s forte, no less.
2 Likes
why on earth should you survive that encounter / win the match then?
if a series of misplays or misplacements lead you to this outcome, the only reasonable result (and a due lesson to be learned in order to do better next time) can be a loss.
whats with the “everything must be winnable” mentality?
no, games shouldn’t be a merry straight line to victory, they’re there to test your skills and reward improvement.
how stale and bland would it be if I wasn’t at the risk of failure at every step of the way?
could as well watch a movie do its plot instead, or skip it to the happy ending just as well.
if I had a say in balancing win rate from damnation upwards would be <10% for the “majority” of players.
and not by lazy number juggling but requiring spot on aiming, twitch reflexes and a good muscle memory as well as meticulous map knowledge.
not some “I push button, struggle goes away” BS
1 Like
The Arbiter’s frag grenades seem even more weak compared to the Rocket Launcher, among the explosive blitzes. Yes, they can recover, but without the dog.
The Ogryn grenade seems well-designed (by old standards) as a means of clearing the battlefield + stunning large targets in a critical situation to revive or escape.
Now, with the Rocket Launcher that do the same four times and better, it seems unfair (even more than the chemical grenade vs fire grenade). However, given the current event, which is openly promoting rockets, it’s hard to believe they’ll be nerfed to their original stats whet it was just right. Let the 3 (which means 4) remain, same for the blast radius, but the armor-breaking potential should work like the krak grenade, only at the point of impact.
Counterpoint: maybe if we would not have such tools, the game could be balanced in another way?
1 Like
Wrong.
3 and eventually 4 if you pick the right talent
True, however it doesn’t instakill a monstrosity.
Replenish every 60 seconds
Can get 3 grenades
AOE that is also insane, and damages really excellent
Only downside is the time to detonate
If you ask me, both should be nerfed… for Scums, 2 boom bringer / 2 chem nades was enough as a base. And damages of the boom bringer should not have been buffed.
For Veteran and arbites, the 60 seconds replenish talent is too strong.
1 Like
He isn’t talking about veteran or arbites.
This is about ogryn.
2 Likes
My bad. You’re right…
But then, this is worse.
Frag grenades are good. This is is the “get out of the prison” card.
Scums boom bringer / chem nades ae the problem. Like Krak grenades and arbitres grenade also.
And big box are really good. If he wants big aoe, this is the blitz to pick.