Firesword Concept

Ok so Firesword currently has a slight problem and part of this is down to how stagger thp functions and BW’s synergy with the Firesword’s DoTs via Famished Flames, Enhanced Power and Soot Shield. Right now the best way to play firesword on BW is to just spam H1 into everything for insane control, thp gain, damage reduction AND also do rather respectable damage via the DoT. A fix for this would be to change BW but that wouldn’t do much to help the weapon when it comes to the way its used since the rest of the moveset is essentially just a worse 1h sword. So here’s a potential solution I came up with in the space of like 30 seconds (so y’know…take it with a grain of salt):

Remove the DoT from H1, add the ability to apply DoTs with light attacks

This would give firesword an inbuilt “flense” of sorts but with burns. The balancing factor here is that H1 would still be the best option for control and thp gain with stagger but it would no longer be a dps option meanwhile the currently underwhelming light chain would become quite good in the hands of BW and Unchained (Pyro would still be best off with 1h sword due to finesse values and crit chance stacking). In addition it wouldn’t be as overwhelming as Flense is on WHC currently as Firesword’s lights have relatively low cleave and so shouldn’t be outputting anything near what, say, billhook with Flense does.

Lemme know what you think lads and lasses :sun_with_face:

9 Likes

Sounds simple enough.

And, considering how underwhelming Fire Sword’s non-heavy moveset is at the moment, this would definetely be much more interesting.
Since it dies have a bit of a problem with “why would you ever use any other attack aside from Heavy ones?”

2 Likes

yeah that’s pretty much my line of logic with it

and the fact that H1 is pretty much the only attack really utilized with fire sword currently (if being optimal), it is very boring for me to use lol

All 1H swords feel kinda boring to me and the only difference on Fire Sword is that H1 has so many synergies with BW.
I fully agree that something needs to be done to make the full moveset attractive without nerfing the weapon too much.

2 Likes

yea adding DoTs to the lights and keeping the DoTs on the push attack and H2 should keep those synergies intact

The idea is good and very neat, which is always a plus. Not quite clear how this would make it decent for unchained though. Her power bonus doesn’t affect the dots, though I suppose it does net you more cleave which would mean more enemies hit with the dot per light attack. Maybe also make the dot on L3 stronger to make that move a bit more desirable? It’s a weird weapon to balance since its stagger utility is so high it’s risky giving it any kind of buff (I mean this is regards to my suggestion, not yours).

1 Like

eh I was thinking in terms of the extra cleave and enfeebling flames remaining useful

it would be a net dps increase I’d think (would have to test to be certain)

1 Like

Actually, why not? I can imagine a talent that reduces the melee increase in favor of improving (melee-induced) burn damage with higher heat. Would possibly open up some options though I’ve only really used the flail on Unchained so I have no idea how the other weapons behave on her right now.

Well technically Fuel to the Fire would affect them, so there is that option for synergy, though obviously that’s only 15 seconds every now and then. I do quite like your idea, but I’m not sure she has enough melee induced dots to make such a talent anything other than a flame sword specific pick. Although I guess you could potentially combine it with the dot on push talent for an interesting build.

Heavy 2 does have some use, it has more stagger power than heavy 1. You can use heavy 1 > heavy 2 to knock a mauler onto the ground. You can also cleave an ungor for example and still stagger a maulers overhead where as Heavy 1 would need to have the mauler as the primary target (the one under your crosshair.) In terms of stagger temp, heavy 1 is pretty much always better (except for monks). Personally I think removing the DoT completely from heavy 1 would hurt the weapon too much, I’d rather see the ticks reduced to between 1 and 2 and the outer aoe cones a little smaller so you wouldn’t apply DoTs to as many enemies in front of you.

you don’t think the lights having DoTs would be a good exchange?

It would become a weaker shield bash at that point, I don’t see why both suggestions can’t happen though.

well I was thinking the easiest way to remove the DoT would be to just give H1 the same profile as shield slams. Regardless the only difference between current H1 and a shield slam (before the dot) is 1.5 damage

Main reason I’ve suggested what I have is to make spamming H1 not the best solution for horde clearing…or even clearing certain elites tbh if we’re talking BW

Good idea. Currently fire sword only has heavy > light, heavy heavy, heavy block/push, or heavy qq cancel. It gives very strong stagger, strong defense due to stagger temp and defensive talent, and also gives (i would say) insane damage with the dots even without combining it with famished. Famished just makes it broken imo.

Yes we could adjust famished flames not affecting melee dots, or just nerf the weapon, but then nobody would use it anymore. I think a combination of your idea where lights give fire dot ( or chance at) + removing famished affecting melee dots would already be a good balance, and the weapon would still be a very strong choice, i would even argue with all those changes it would still be the generally most picked melee on bw by the majority of players.

Another thing they could do is change the cleave on the heavy 1, as from my understanding, the limit is either very high, or there isn’t any.

To clear up my idea: either remove famished affecting melee dots and changing fire sword where lights can give dots guaranteed, this would be a great change.

A less drastic change could be to keep famished affecting melee dots, but to give fire sword lights a chance at giving dots.

Or a more drastic change, remove famished affecting melee and also give a chance to trigger dots on light attacks. But this drastic is probably not needed.

Personally i like the first idea more, consistent dots on lights, still great synergies with her dmg red talent. Still access to temp hp by using heavy 1, still gives great cc on heavy 1.

Another thing could also be to make famished still affect dots but only apply them guaranteed on fire sword lights. This would also still be more balanced, but probably not, as it would still be extremely safe to get great melee dps with famished.

1 Like

well my thinking is since Famished reduces on-hit damage, you’ll actually be making an active trade off if you take famished on Firesword if you can’t just H1 to apply burns. Idk if the DPS would actually be higher or not without famished in such a case; it would require testing.

Right now the downside of Famished means nothing to Firesword since the H1 does like 5 damage on hit anyway

1 Like

Yea i can understand.
But the firesword h1 with famished does still insane dmg purely due to dot. (like you said)
I think the main thing is that its super safe, while also giving great dps + temp hp etc all that. I think if you made it the same dot but be consistent on lights, that the safe aspect would be reduced a bit, but not entirly, as currently its still safe to get heavy 1 + heavy or light off, so i don’t think it would change alot how it’s played in reality. as you would probabyl still be able to heavy 1 and do 1 or a couple of lights after. it would reduce the cleave on mixed hordes i believe, which would be a good thing imo.

1 Like

yeah I’m not fussed if the people still spam the slam for the defensive value, just that you’ll have to mix in a few other inputs to get good dps output

1 Like

I kind of feel H1 is only “too much” with Famished Flames, outside of that it’s only a “pretty damn good” attack when fighting hordes (offensively seen, that is). I think removing the DoT of it, even when replacing with a DoT on lights, is an unneeded nerf. The real problem with Flamesword is pretty much only with Famished Flames builds, not with Flamesword intrinsically. If Famished Flames didn’t exist, I’m 100% sure this post would not have been made. You even pretty much said as much yourself in your original post. So instead of messing with Flamesword, it would be much more logical to change BW’s talents if that creates an unbalanced setup.

For the record, however: I don’t really think FF BW as-is is so problematic as to warrant an overhaul myself, but I think that if you’d think it was, changing the talents makes more sense than removing a DoT from a flaming claw attack.

to me, famished just adds to something that’s already an issue

fuel to the fire, as it were :^)

1 Like

I see where you’re coming from, but it still seems to me like the fire of the Flamesword itself is a nice campfire where you can warm yourself comfortably and roast a few marshmellows, while Famished Flames is a can of gasoline that is thrown on top of it causing an explosion. Therefore my solution would be to not throw the gasoline of it, instead of making the fire really small so throwing gasoline on it isn’t as disastrous. If you see what I mean.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu