Feedback for 30 Ogryn and Psyker

After leveling Ogryn and Psyker to 30 (which went actually quite fast if you focus on lower difficulties and finish the missions instead of losing on higher difficulties :wink: ), I thought I’d give my perspective on their overall feel, their weapons, talents and synergies. I do think that these two are actually in quite a good spot, with only some very minor tweeks needed to individual classes. Most things that hinder both from being enjoyable all the time are mostly universal, meaning these are general issues that affect all playable classes, albeit possibly in different ways and/or to more or lesser extents.

General Stuff:

Overall, the game feels pretty tight and noticably different from Vermintide, which has both light and dark sides to it. I think it is common consesus that the game is in ALOT better of a state than VT2 was at a similar state in its development, and that most questionable design choices that were present in VT2 have been adressed. I’ll start out with some general thoughts on some core mechanics.

  1. Toughness: I think the move towards a shield-mechanic in lieu of temp health was a very smart move, as it makes health a more valuable commodity, puts more pressure on the group to push ahead and be careful at the same time, while still rewarding aggressive play (one could argue making it a necessity), and having two ways to regen toughness - melee kills and coherency - means you don’t get shoehorned into playing a certain way. It does benefit melee heroes with killing potential more than those who can only CC or focus on range, but again, the choice of giving each class access to truly unique ways of toughness regen that are not exclusively tied to melee combat gives the player alot of control over how to play.

  2. Coherency: Speaking of coherency, I was quite a bit skeptical about this, and I do think there is still some tweaking to be done, but overall, I think this is a mechanic that benefits the flow of the game. I do not feel that coherency is forcing you to hudle together, but it is more of soft coercion. Coherency radius is generous enough that you don’t need to sniff each others armpits in order to benefit from it (I am looking at you, auras from VT2!), and it does allow to split up in teams of two to do different stuff. I don’t share the criticism that this forces a certain style of play at all. Straying of alone is now risky, but the benefits you lose are nowhere defining your character in a way that having no coherency bonus would strip you of a large part of your kit. The only thing I would indeed change is not tying passive toughness-regen to coherency. The coherency-bonus is good as it is, but I would like to have passive regen without it. Make it small and insignificant, but make it exist. That’s all I have to say about this.

  3. Ranged Enemies: Not gonna add much more to what hasn’t already been said: Don’t give them perfect accuracy. Remember what the outrage was about beastmen archers when you couldn’t block their arrows without a shield? Remember how they are still despised by many people because even though they don’t have perfect accuracy, when a couple of them pelts you with an arrow while engaged in melee and the small stagger disrupts your rhythm and you feel you get punished for having done nothing wrong? Yeah, now imagine that with perfect accuracy AND beastmen archers still shooting at you while they stand 10 feet away from you. Ranged enemies are too plentiful and deal too much damage in order for them to have perfect accuracy. Also, they are still VERY prone to shoot at you from very close ranges, often still strafing away from you while you can do nothing but get blasted in the face while you try to catch up to them. The range in which they are forced to switch to melee should be ALOT larger than it is right now, and the switch should take priority over anything else they are doing. It still happens frequently that ranged enemies pelt you with half a salvo, then realize they are in melee range, and switch their weapon mid-salvo.
    I do agree with the sentiment that regular ranged enemies are ALOT more dangerous than specialists and elites witch ranged capabilities, simply because they are so plentiful, engage you from longer distances than Gunners or Flamers do, an are usually alot more spread out in groups. On higher difficulties, you can hardly peek your head out of cover to take shots without immediately getting greated by a veritable barrage fired into your unexpecting visage. I think this results in a difficulty that is more frustrating than truly challanging. No need to change much, but some tweaks here and there should be done.

  4. Cover: While at the topic of cover, the perfect accuracy of ranged enemies also means that they will exploit even the most miniscule holes in the cover you are seeking to hit you. It does not happen too frequently, but there is hardly anything more irritating than thinking you are in cover, only for a random lasgunner threading a needle through the thumb-sized hole in the geometry of your cover. This is especially comical with snipers that will exploit even the smalles gap. Sharp they shoot indeed.


Now for the first of the two classes I’ve played to 30 so far, the Ogryn is actually in quite a good place. You rarely see them on higher difficulties, and the overall sentiment seems to be that Ogryn suffers the most from the overabundance of ranged enemies. I would agree insofar as the already mentioned problems with cover and the perfect accuracy of ranged enemies does seem to affect Ogryn the most due to his size, coupled with the fact that finding proper cover is deliberately limited. It always seems like when there has been multiple cover options placed in a level, there is usually only one large enough for the Ogryn. This does limit his playstyle a little bit, but I don’t agree that Ogryn is the weakest. Ironically, even though he has the most wounds and highest health, playing Ogryn can be the least forgiving with the smallest margin for faulty play. I know the meta is shield, which is understandable due to the fact that Ogryn with shield can create his own cover on the spot, he can hold doors with weapon special and he has good crowd control. However, his other melee options are equally as viable. You just have to play SUPER aggressively. Usually, you just gotta have the courage to charge in and start slaying - but of course, you need to know when the time isn’t right.

One thing I will get ouf the way is that I do find level 30 talents for all classes a little bit troubling when it comes to playing and understanding a class. The game isn’t paced too well in the progession in this regard, simply owed to the fact that the level 30 talents define you class ability more than anything before, and I would make the case that you can only truly start to understand the capabilities and limitations of your chosen class once you have access to the level 30 talents. This is especially true for Ogryn, but I will get to that in detail below. I also realize that the lore dictates some of the quirks the Ogryn has. While the writing suggests that our Ogryns are Bone’eads whose implants have run faulty, Ogryn, by lore, need to be a little clumsy and slow when compared to humans. It is for that reason that I will not critize the choice to make his attacks slow-ish and his gunplay a little clunky, but I do say that some of the weapons need to be looked into.

I’ll start out with the talents and try to give my perspective on how viable they are, not only when compared to each other, but with his overall kit, role, weapon choise and possible synergies with other classes.

Column I

Both “Smash 'em Good” and “Best Form of Defense” are viable, with the latter being the most sensible choice, given that Ogryn’s role is CC and horde clearing and this is the situation where he needs toughness regen the most. It also synergizes well with weapon traits that give some kind of toughness regen on different melee attacks. With a good weapon, you can realiably get about a third of your toughness back while using charged sweaps. With cleavers and knifes, once you figure out what the best attack pattern is, your survivability in melee is unrivaled. Also works well with the shield. “Lynchpin” falls flat. While 100% more passive regen sounds nice in theory, it would benefit Ogryn only in situations where there are ranged engagements from cover, where he is not at his strongest. It’s nice to give you the possibility to give you something to balance out your weaknesses, but Ogryn needs access to reliable regen in melee because you are often trading hits due to your slow attack speed.

Column II
Again, two talents take the spotlight: “Heavyweight” and “Blood & Thunder” are equally viable choices. In on itself, Heavyweight is definitely worlds better than “Blood & Thunder”, but once you get access to level 20’s “Bloodthirst”, Blood & Thunder is the more reliable choice if you don’t have a weapon that causes bleed. However, if you do, Heavyweight will help you against enemy Ogryn in melee, something Ogryn heavily struggles with, allthough more bleed-stacks always help in this regard, also. I do feel that, considering there is weapons our there that give multiple bleed-stacks, a single stack on heavy attack only seems a little bit lack-luster. Especially on harder difficulties, a single bleed stack applied in such a slow manner hardly makes any difference in your killing potential, so essentially, you’d only run this to get reliable access to “Bloodthirst”. This needs some tweaking imho.

“Bombs Away”, on the other hand, is a joke that doesn’t stand a chance against the other two talents in any way imaginable. Not only do the other talents provide bonusses that are either passive or readily available, they don’t require any skill or certain situation to come into play. “Bombs Away” gives a mediocre bonus that only applies under a very narrow set of circumstances, AND you have to be at least somewhat skillful to properly apply it, AND you miss out on the bonusses the other talents provide. The talent requires you to have a grenade ready, of which Ogryn only has two, AND there needs to be a carapace armoured enemy, AND you have to actually hit it with your grenade box (which isn’t THAT hard due to their size, but in situations wher the addes explosions would be helpful, there is usually alot of ther stuff attacking you), AND for the grenades’ explosions to be of any meaningful effect, there need to be additional enemies around the armoured enemy. And what do you get? Okay, you clear the situation, then what? Especially on higher difficulties, enemies are so plentiful, you don’t really gain much from the feat you just accomplished. You can’t even use it against monstrosities, so overall, this is quite a waste.
Suggestion: This talent needs to be replaced with something that can compete with the other two talents. Ogryn’s grenade box should always work like this: On a direct hit on an enemy, the grenades fall out and explode after a couple of seconds. I get the humour behind Ogryn being too stupid and clumsy to properly use a single grenade, but this humour would still be present if the grenades exploded all at once.

Column III

These talents are all a bit lackluster. Towering presence is always useful, but doesn’t really give much customization or synergies with your kit. It’s just nice to have. “Bullfighter” is more synergetic if you want to charge often (which you basically want, no matter how your kit is) and a good bonus, since on higher difficulties, you are usually within coherency with your squad and there are many elites running around. “Lead the Charge” is a small bonus that only affects your teammates, and while it might help them to catch up to you when you charge or make a coordinated retreat, it is still just 25% more movement speed for 4 seconds. I think “Lead the Charge” should provide something alot more useful than just movement speed for a couple of seconds.

Column IV
Bloodthirst reings supreme, due to how easy it is to apply bleeding against enemies and how big of a bonus it provides. Especially when paired with “Bull Gore”, you can charge into combat with reckless abandon and know that you will be pretty much set with 50% damage reduction for as long as you can keep the action up. “Die Hard” is, again, good on paper, but situational. Hard as Nails is also very situational, but can be a matchwinner if you are really the last man standing, as with 75% DR, reviving is alot easier. However, you are trading very situational potential 75% DR against quasi always ready 50% DR. Not a good trade imho.

Column V

Column five offers good variety. “Knife through Butter” is a good pick because of how punishing a bigger group of enemies is once a single carapace armoured enemy mixes in. Having to fully charge the charged attack does diminish its practicality, but can still be a game changer, depending on what weapon you use it on. Also helps with densely packed mobs, of course. “Raging Bull” is good offensive pick for Ogryn’s knives, considering how well they cleave. Triggers when you need it most and makes a big difference in horde clearing. “Payback Time” falls a littel short. It helps when you are trading shots, and a flat 20% bonus is a pretty serious buff, and the limitation on “enemy type” isn’t much of a detriment. Still, if you play your cards right, “Raging Bull” is the better pick.

Column VI

This is what I hinted at before. Column VI is a game-changer, because it gives your bullcharge the possibility to truly switch up the way you use it. Two bleed stacks is not a huge debuff, but it is applied to everything you touch and it goes without saying that it is a natural fit with Bloodthrist. This allows you to be more aggressive when charging into groups of enemies, due to the fact that you instantly get your 50% DR up. Non-Stop-Violence falls in the same wake, allowing you to use your charge to pretty much instantly replenish your toughness, so you can use your charge as a tool for repositioning and immediately re-engage. It also helps against ranged chips before and during your charge. “Unstoppable” is, by and large, the biggest game changer, because it allows you to close the gap against almost all ranged enemies, and I’d say this is almost a mandatory pick: You can knock down all carapace armoured enemies, who somewhat are your nemesis in melee, and allowing your team to get in alot of hits with impunity, and it allows for both safer engagements as well as disengagements, AND you are alot more capable of helping fallen comrades.

All in all, Ogryn is in a good spot, but talent choice is limited. His grenade talent needs to go and just switch to how his grenades to begin with, and if they always worked like that, having only the amount reduced to one wouldn’t be uncalled for. His melee weapons suffer from a surprising lack of anti-armour capabilities. I know that this largeley depends on how the stats are rolled, and my current mastercraft knife is actually rather decent. Still, a dedicated anti armour weapon would be welcome. His ranged weapons are also fine. Rippergun is a little low on the ammo-side, even when you get a good roll on the ammo capacity, considering the HMG isn’t that much worse of in close quarters, decent at medium range and generally has ammo for days. Kickback is not worth it, grenade launcher is very good, so is HMG.

Psyker will be next.

Edit Forgot one thing: Put Ogryn in dodged state during charge against melee and ranged.


I think it is common consesus that the game is in ALOT better of a state than VT2 was at a similar state in its development, and that most questionable design choices that were present in VT2 have been adressed.

Disagree, mainly due to the regression of melee mechanics, which is something I don’t think enough people are taking note of. Until melee combat is brought back up to the VT2 standard I can’t bring myself to care about any of the other issues the game has. That being said, your actual feedback in your post is good stuff, don’t see much to disagree with.


What issues are there with the melee combat in your opinion?

I have 700+ hours in VT2 and it feels good to me. Dodging feels more tactical and less spammy being a big plus for me.

I agree that it is wonkier than VT2 is now. But at release, VT2 was, generally, in a pretty rough state. I mean, they released an earlier developer build instead of the proper game ^^

What issues are there with the melee combat in your opinion?

Enemies have more delayed attacks and tighter dodge windows, dodge has a greater lockout on it before you can dodge again, you get stunned for an extremely long time when your guard is broken and dodging stops your stamina from regenerating (among other things). Combined with DT simply being a harder game on paper (dangerous ranged enemies, elites are much more scary than their VT2 counterparts, etc) and it just makes the melee feel really bad compared to VT2. If you’re using a weapon with low cleave, it’s a night and day difference. If you have high cleave you might be able to convince yourself it’s as good as VT2 since your ability to stagger more enemies with your actual attacks makes the dodge nerfs less noticeable.


ive played my ogryn to about 27 and agree on some points. what you are laying out is there only seem to be a couple OK chocies and other are “well which of these is the least garbage”. The ogryn talents are a bit messy and yes his grenade talent is fun to use but honestly i keep forgetting to use his grenade sadly as it has a tiny impact on damage/clear and requires accuracy which is odd for an ogryn. If anything he should have one single massive grenade or like it is now a cluster grenade that clears masssive wave or anti armor/missile type weapon. His weapons need a refocus id like the
option to choose the weapon that is linked with the shield because if I could have a shovel with the shield that would be my pick everytime. his guns are all decent but need reload speeds upped. the stubber is FUN but has the longest reload other then maybe a completly empty revolver (even shotgun is faster) the ripper is fun but mag size and reload are both too low/slow the push back is extremely fun to use but idk reload is 2x slower then the grenade launcher and it is literally the exact same style of weapon. I think they need to add a slug style variant of the pushback which fires an AP round to be a massive 1 hit to enemies like maulers but again requires you to make sure that one shot lands. risk/reward

the grenade gauntlet is ok I think it may be one of the his “better” ranged weapons but it feels clunky to use.

He needs a big 2hd weapons also for massive clear AND some form of AP melee (axe?)

the grenade launcher is fun but the delayed explosion and bounching grenade can mess up placing shots

I think he and the zealot are the most fun to play so far the psyker to me is a mess and his brainburst mechainc needs a massive rework and the guardsman is in a decent place BUT going back to ogryn is you are playing with an ogryn as a guardsman it can be a bit of an positioning dancing to get shots to not hit the massive meat wall in the way.

I must say I feel the exact opposite. All of these changes make the melee combat feel more purposeful and skillful, and less spammy.

You have to actually think about what you’re doing as opposed to VT2 where you can often just spam dodge and left click.


I don’t know how you feel that way when it simply increases the chances for you locking yourself into a no-win situation. If you’re using one of the axes to fight a sufficiently large horde then you are simply going to eat damage. You couldn’t just dodge an entire horde in VT2 either, but now the dodge timings are tighter (which doesn’t matter as you basically can’t time a dodge against 10+ enemies swinging at you at the same time), you are locked out of dodging for longer and you’re basically running on borrowed time as far as compensating using pushing goes because again your stamina does not regenerate when you’re dodging. Hell, all of that is just under the hypothetical of fighting a simple horde, it falls apart even more if there are any elites mixed into the equation.


All this means is that you can’t solo a horde forever, as opposed to VT2, which is “different” and not an objectively worse design decision.

If you enjoy being nerfed to the point that you objectively can’t tackle certain situations then sure, I however don’t like being artificially pigeonholed into losing. VT2’s combat system allowed a sufficiently skilled player to win in almost any situation you could encounter, even in modded difficulties. In DT this simply isn’t the case, and I don’t really understand this considering, again, the game is already alot harder than VT2 even without these mechanical nerfs. The vast majority of VT2 players definitely did not have a problem with the game being too easy, and now it’s not only harder but clunkier and more limiting. It’s too much in my opinion.


Then those 700 hours must have been on recruit or you are just coping hard.

Nope, finished all maps on Cataclysm, some of them on True Duo Cataclysm.

Have you considered I might just enjoy different things than you? To me, the new melee combat feels more skillful and thus more fun.

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I don’t know how “more limiting” translates into “more skillful.” It’s the same gameplay as VT2 but with significant mechanical nerfs. You can play as well as you played in VT2 and get worse results, there’s not more skill going into it it’s just less payoff for the same skill.


Not even less payoff. It is more like you have less opportunities to be skillfull, because a) mechanics are practically useless, b) non existant or c) highly inconsistent with either themselves or the entire rest of the game.


Ok so the difference is I like being a complete pianist and you hitting the same three keys the entire day gotcha. I really don’t get this argument. Why does the only way for increasing difficulty have to be gimping the freedom of the player? Have you ever thought about the fact that, having mechanics that give a certain degree of freedom to the player scales much better with increasing difficulty on the AI side? If your mechanics are too limiting you get stuff like toughness basically being nonexistant on Heresy+.

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Limits are inherent to games. Games wouldn’t be games if you could do anything. In this case, these limitations incentivize the player to be more tactical with his dodging and shoving, which forces more skillful play, which is more fun, at least for me.

It’s like when Doom Eternal made it so you couldn’t use a single weapon the entire game by limiting ammo and limiting the effectiveness of certain weapons on certain enemies. These are limitations, but they made you play more tactically in terms of which weapons you used, when, and to which extent, which I found immensely satisfying, especially on the hardest difficulty.

Perhaps you feel these limitations don’t encourage skillful play, or overall make the game less fun, which is fine, but I feel differently.

If you are having trouble with stamina in hordes, I suggest trying to severely limit the number of dodges and pushes you use, only using them when you really have to. You’d be surprised how much you can get away with. I do this and don’t have much trouble with stamina even with an axe and when I need to solo a horde.


I shall out myself right away: I enjoy the way Psyker is set up. It is very involved and you are always doing something. It is very busy, and I don’t find it tedious at all to be constantly switching between my weapons and BB, casting different spells, doing melee, bursting heads, releasing your shockwave. Psyker has a VERY good kit, and the Warp Charge mechanic is a very central point. While I do agree that there should be more ways to gain charges, the overall approach as a support class that focuses on eliminating priority targets in a reliable manner with the option of not consuming ammo, leaving more for your team, has been executed quite succeedly. Talent choice is alot more varied, as are playstyles, owed to the fact that you are not bound to staffs, but can also equip standard ranged weapons. You can use your peril soleley to pop heads, or your go full regalia and equip a staff, or focus on the staff and do BB on the side, or anything in between. Maintaining and managing your warp charges is an integral part of play, and I don’t mind it at all. In fact, I like the idea of trying to “ride the wave” as long as possible, and it rewards skillful play: If you have proper understanding of the games rhythm, how peril works and what the limitations of your overcharge are before you blow up, you are indeed rewarded with not only being useful, but feeling powerful while doing so.

Part of why Psyker is so engaging to play is not only their usefulness, but also because the abilities have a wide variety applications that all contribute to your role and can be interpreted in a way that benefits your own playstyle and your group composition the most. The active ability, while appearing a bit lackluster at first, opens up at level 30 and becomes a very versatile tool: It provides reasonably good crowd control, it vents your overcharge in order to free up more head pops, and the level 30 talents allow you to develope its application even further: Go full CC and have it recharge even faster, add horde clear via the surprisingly powerful sould rend debuff (especially with six stacks, it is nothing to laugh at at even 4 or 5 difficulty) and softening up bigger targets, or go for the head popper special (again, with six stacks of War Charges and 50% reduced BB peril generation, you can dial up your elilte and special hunting to the max in a jiffy, it’s super fun).

There are some things I would change, albeit only ever so slightly. Locking on with BB is sometimes a bit too fiddly, and it definitely should prioritize elites and specials. My suggestion: If it is taggable, BB should naturally gravitate towards it. Other suggestion: If it has been tagged and you move your mouse over the outline, it should ingore anything that isnt tagged. Also, there are some rather counter-intuitive barriers that deny you from locking on your BB, even though you can clearly see the target. This might be okay for glass windows and such, but if is just a large handrail on a flight of stairs and I can clearly see the enemy, I should be able to lock on to it.
As for BB not killing everything in a single hit on higher difficulties, I am fine with the larger enemies taking more hits. However, I do think that Hounds should always be a 1HKO, since hunting those Sahnic-Mofos is your job. I see no reason to artificially make this harder than it needs to be.

Let’s look at talents:

Column I

All of these have their niche, but Essence Harvest is the most reliable if you focus on BB and Warp Charges. Synergizes well with Column III Psychic Communion, since you will reliably get Charges during Hordes in melee, where you need additional toughness the most, and throwing in the occasional BB to get toughness regen, while a bit risky, should be expected from your skillset to begin with. Creating openings fore BB against priority targets is something you need to learn, anyhow, so this gives you incentive to do so. You also have the most control over your bonus regen. Warp Absorption is a tad bit more random due to requiring a kill, but if you run a staff and focus on staff spellcasting, this is a very legit choice. Same goes with Quietude: If you choose a playstyle that relies more on quelling than on passive regen, usually when you want to use BB and your staff equally often, this is a good choice. Warb Absorption and Quietude can synergize well with other talents from other columns, so while my personal playstyle favours Essence Harvest, these are all very good and viable.

Column II

Also a very good set of choicses imho. Psykinetic’s Wrath rewards a high risk playstyle, and works best with staffs with a strong chargable attack. You can usually only press out two fully charged spells (depending on how the stats on your staff are), but that extra power makes them hit hard. A very good choice if you don’t want to focus on constantly maintaining your warp charges. Together with Warp Battery and a full stack of Charges, you can do serious damage with your spells.
Inner Tranquility allows you to use your BB more often and spam your spells more reliably, and gives you incentive to keep your charges up and running.
Wrack and Ruin is a bit lackluster. It is highly situational, it requires a kill and two stacks of soulblaze in a rather small radius is nothing to write home about, especially on difficulties 4 and up. This needs some tweaking. Suggestion is either to not require a kill, or slightly increase the radius and give Soulblaze stacks equivalent to your current warp charges.

Column III
Column III is also largely in a good spot, as it offers different playstyles, and all talents have multiple good synergies. Psychic Communion if you want to have alot of Warp Charge uptime and / or regain them quickly. 4% doesnt sound like much, but in practice, during hordes, in a tightly packed team, you will reliably get your charges up/back. Pair that with Essence Harvest as said and you also get good toughness regen. Psykinetic’s Aura is a little bland, but practical, though considering it is on elite kill, 15% is a bit on the lower side. I’d say 20% if in order if you want to focus on spellslinging and CC via your ability. Cerebral Lacerations is a good support ability and something akin to “boss killing”, though arguably, again, 15% for 5 seconds is a bit on the lower side. I’d say dial up the duration to something like 7 seconds or the bonus to 20%. Otherwise, this is all very solid.

Column IV
A little bit of everything. You can boost your melee survivability with Kinetic Deflection and might also get mileage out of it if you want more peril for higher damage via Psyikentic’s Wrath. If you ride the wave of Warp Charges, Kinetic Shield is a good pick and it synergizes well with anything warp-charge related. Greatly increases your survivability. Mind in Motion is a bit lackluster. You do move alot faster, obviously, but you don’t want to quell in situations where movement speed might be an issue, anyhow. I’d suggest giving this feat also a passive bonus to quell speed of something like 20 to 25%.

Column V
Very interesting choices. Warp Battery is always nice, and having access to essentially 50% more of everything charge-related is nothing to laugh at. No matter what your build, this is a good pick. Kinetic Overload is nice in theory, but also lackluster, as you don’t have control over it, but the smart targeting seems reasonable enough. If you run a mixed build that isn’t exclusively geared towards warp charges, this is a nice choice. Kinetic Flayer is especially good in melee combat and in 1 on 1 situations where manual BB isn’t an option. I’d say the 15 seconds cooldown is a tad bit too high. 10 to 12 seconds would also be reasonable.

Column VI
This, again, is an absolute game changer. Quicken seems to be the weakest of the bunch, but if you want to be able to use your ability more often to CC and to quell your peril because of your spellslinging, it is not a bad choice. Ascendant Blaze gives Psyker some very needed close quarter horde clearing as well as the ability to severely weaken bigger enemies. Up to six stacks of Soul Blaze also gives you a reasonable expecation to kill mobs with it even on higher difficulties, so you will get some charges back, getting the train rolling again. It makes using your ability as a method of quelling a more tactical choice, since you will lose your warp charges, but the benefit is well worth it. Kinetic Barrage lets you pop heads in quick succession. Together with Warp Battery and Inner Tranquility, you can pump out BBs at very little cost very quickly. A very viable strategy if you got good CC and horde clear on your team and want to focus on hunting eliltes and specials.

As for the staffs, they all seem solid, except for the flamethrower. Even with good rolls, it doesn’t provide enough damage or CC to make up for the fact that it doesn’t have a longe range attack. The “conflag staff” (pardon me, I’m going to use VT2 terminology for the time being so we all know what I am talking about) has better horde clear and ALOT better CC when it has a good roll and charge time and explosion radius, the “fireball staff” is also not bad at this and has tremendous damage at medium range, and the “force lightning” staff is also better at this, though I find it harder to use than “conflag”.

That’s my take on Psyker. I’m having a “blast” (get it?) so far.

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I more or less agree with everything stated so far. I am close to having my Psyker to level 30 and my Ogryn is about half way there. I agree that the grenade box should explode default, and maybe replace the bomb perk with an armor piercing missile or dart grenades that have AP value to deal with Crushers and Bulwarks better. I was very much hoping that later on the Ogryn would get a large two-hander mace/sword/axe with good armor pierce, but looks like I will be disappointed there.

That being said, on the Psyker side of things. I hate the that I cannot target people with Brain Burst through railings. It has gotten me or teammates downed because I did not realize in time that I could not target through. Brain burst feels less clunky to me than it did before, but regardless of how powerful it is, it is still a clunky mechanic. That being said, being able to pop a special on the first 3 difficulties without receiving a shot and it is in a maze of darkened spawn doorways behind 30 walls is pretty great. The only force sword I have gotten is the single target one, and it feels pretty versatile and does good damage. I like all the staffs (especially the fireball staff cus that juicy headshot sound and overpen on enemies) but the flamethrower staff feels very underwhelming to me. very little damage and CC on it in my limited experience with it. Other than that they all feel good.

I am going into a drop so I will cut it short here!

You praise Raging Bull but this is the only post I’ve seen that doesn’t claim it’s broken (doesn’t work at all). What are we missing?


This is also a very big issue for me. It should be adressed.

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