It’ll allow me to replicate one of my favorite VT2 builds if the Ogryn can have a tac ax. And leap. And be a dwarf.
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Oh no, he’s stealing the day! He’s going to Carpe our Diem! Someone quick, stop him!
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Its too late, I feel accomplished. My ego is soaring. I AM UNSTOPPABLE!
(in case the sarcasm wasnt coming thru, Im joking, I really just wanted @SudoTronic to explain more betterer)
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The need to use DS in Havok is the reason I stick with Auric. I would prefer DS to be around the level of other weapons, preferably other weapons buffed around the level of Relic Blade & DS.
Just registered only because of this conversation.
My main character is Psyker (playing other classes too of course). Since I’ve started to play Darktide, I tried more than 50% of available melee weapons before I got DS. I don’t wanna begin a holywars about classes and skills but personally for me Psyker is a class with almost glassy armor (but can do extremely high damage and I love it). So every melee fight is a challenge. Also I’m not a skilled player (~700 in-game hours). So when I found DS it was like a bit of fresh air. With this weapon I literally started living in higher difficulty missions, then in Havoc etc. It was a step that opened a next levels of missions for me. Of course I’m playing with other melee weapons e.g. when helping other players at lower difficulties (other melee are fun too). But please don’t take DS from me.
Also look from other side. DS was a Psyker only class weapon. Then devs shared (?) it across Veteran and Zealot (?) and now you want to nerf (?) it. Ok, but nerf it only for Vets and Zealots please. Not for Psykers. This weapon was designed for Psykers. So take it back to Psykers only. And that’s it.
Or lets do it equal and do same steps for other class only weapons. For example, lets share Thunder Hammer across Vets and Psykers. Then lets nerf it after a half year because it “too strong”.
Or lets share Plasma Gun across Zealot and Psyker. Then lets nerf it after a half year because it “too strong”.
Because that is what is happening with DS right now. Please don’t bring more extreme pain to low/mid skill Psykers (same as me)
I wouldn’t worry too much. The main things that would logically get nerfed about the DS is the sprint speed slightly and the carapace damage. Most likely the weapon’s dodging power and damage against non carapace enemies won’t get hit hard, if at all.
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You’re linking a video which demonstrates just a simulation. In a real game, you won’t have time to run away from the boss to kill specials to get 25 stacks of the buff while simultaneously waiting for the Gaze cooldown, kill all the mobs around, and fight only the Plague Ogryn in an open space. This literally never happens. Also, this YouTuber often makes videos in the same manner (you can watch his video about Purgatus Staff), and it is really interesting and fun content, but it doesn’t really make sense in real gameplay.
From Tanner Lindberg’s videos on YouTube, I guess that for classes the goal is Vermintide 2 balancing.
I don’t think that’s achievable or fitting for many things such as the skill tree, because it is fundamentally so much different, but if anything, aim for Vermintide 2 balancing with Darktide weapons.
You have quite a good amount of seriously viable, good options on for example Kruber and Saltzpyre. And the best part is, that it doesn’t necessarily trade AP for Cleave, which is what I feel like Darktide weapons tend to do all of the time.
In Vermtinde, I would always switch between the Rapier, Axe & Falchion and Bill Hook, all great weapons, all situational. Rapier is more defensive, Axe & Falchion more offensive, Bill Hook depends on what exactly you are facing, such as Norscans and it is nice to reach something from afar and stagger Chaos Warriors, etc.
Same for Kruber pretty much.
How come this is not the goal? It makes the game feel amazing. I can switch up weapons and the game will feel completely different, because it is my main way of dealing damage after all.
Please look at Helldivers 2 their community feedback regarding balancing through the game its lifetime. The path they took is something that should be studied forever.
Nerf the strongest with no buffs? Not fun. Bring the previously strongest back to viable/good level (even against the toughest challenges), while also buffing alternatives to that level? Perfect!!! I can pick and choose what I want, just like with Vermtintide 2. I don’t feel bound to the same META all of the time in order to be the most efficient.
I would hate that they transform the current combat experience in a slow experience like in VT2.
Except, if they would introduce that in Havoc as a “campaign”, a game with different rules.
But not for the standard game. We all are here for more than 2 years at playing one game… it makes no sense to change the combat and the feeling you get in it.
I would love that we could have 2 melee weapons in Darktide
That’s very sad that we don’t have such class that could use 2 different melee weapons!
My feeling is that they should nerf just what is needed the too strong weapons. Basically, DS, PG, Boltgun. And psyker for what is making it so strong and powerful.
And buff what is so weak…
More ammos for shotgun (and a slight buff BASE damage (not finesse)), tactical axe that can be useful (range is a problem, it should be inverted with combat blade), catachan sword (a damage buff please, a slight but a damage buff), heavy sword (make them slower but with better damage), graia and agri IAG buff …
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There isn’t a need to use DS in Havoc (I don’t). It’s just a very overtuned weapon in it’s current state; the people that are using it are doing so because it’s the best weapon available - by a significant margin.
Relic Blade is S-Tier, but actually requires skill to learn and use and is slow and immobile. Dueling Sword is in a tier all its own - easy to use, rends through carapace and unyielding like they’re paper, god-tier mobility.
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Along with the attack input issues it sounds like something’s wrong with your pc not the game
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No one’s saying they want to take the dueling sword away from you (a bit melodramatic, mate?). It simply needs to not be the best possible option in the game with no downsides - that’s called balance.
I assure you a Psyker can handle havoc without the dueling sword; but in your own words there the DS is a crutch that is preventing your skill from progressing because it makes higher level content much easier than other weapons. Rather than learn to handle the higher difficulties on normal weapons, you use the massively overpowered dueling sword because it makes them easier. That’s the problem statement in a nutshell. It needs to be brought inline.
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I mostly agree. I get none of these issues even when streaming, but I know that a slower PC or a PC playing on wifi or someone playing on a PS5 or equivalent can get these issues.
Darktide isnt the most optimized game and neither was Vermintide 2 for a long, long time.
But then, the issue isnt just Darktides fault, its also people playing an online only game with sub-par equipment on wifi 
There will always be a few unlucky souls who have a wired connection with a beast PC that get issues. But thats literally every game in existence. It does annoy me when peeps act like its always FS’s fault. Go to any games forum and we will find posts of ppl complaining about stability, glitches etc etc
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And then also give it to the classes that have a decent stats pool, insta toughness reffil mechanics, and other tanky things.
Sometimes restrictions is the option for balance. If weapons were asking for some sort specialization point it would be easier. Like if you take finesse weapons - you can’t have big HP/toughness pool but survives through evasion and mobility. But you can play Saltz zealot-Kerillian shade hybrid and it causes problems.
Either it should have been from the start for all humans to have their unique mark of the same weapon archetype, not 3 for every. Cause anyways in most cases there is a consensus on the best mark, it’s almost never all 3 are popular equaly.
Bolter is another example, if it were a separated profile for zealot like having incendiary bolts, there would be no problems dancing 2 years around how to make it not OP on vet and not unwieldy on zealot.
And then give bolter to psyker also, with psy active bolts
And also you could work on separated blessings pool more easy, knowing that blessings scales well with this class.
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There’s also the common ‘fix your network/stability issues instead of balancing my god-tier weapon!’ refrain which is a bit odd, as network engineers tend not to be doing double duty as the balance team 
Different teams…
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Yes but even removed from ideal situation, it’s still basically in a power level of its own, and even at a more realistic level of buff stacking, Psyker still gives it insanely good steroids.
You pretty much admit it’s in a power level of its own with your whole story about how it let you climb difficulty much more rapidly than you were before.
I love Psyker but I don’t want it just restricted to Psyker and left as is otherwise. It’s not even that the melee option competition is bad for Psyker, it just looms over them regardless in its sheer imbalance. I like the weapon and have since before it was buffed in patch 13. I love it stylistically on Psyker and it fits wonderfully into a right tree build. I’d love to be able to take it again without it basically turning my chosen difficulty down a level.
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Well, but we have a case that some people calls DS like “the best possible option in the game with no downsides”? I mean, isn’t that just a couple of some subjective opinions? There is no votes/stats numbers crossing with real amount of players (according to Steam online, for example). Also, when you say “massively overpowered dueling sword,” isn’t that just your personal experience and subjective opinion as well?
It’s great that some players who have a good understanding of the game (I’m referring to the example of Tanner Lindberg’s video above), and based on their knowledge, can put together a combination of talents, effects, and weapons to achieve outstanding results. But do people really play Darktide exactly this way? The question is Tanner Lindberg’s gaming experience representative of the gaming experience of the average players? Also, there are people playing Darktide with controller (like Xbox), have you tried to realize this weapon “advantages” with controller? Is it still “best possible option in the game” on Xbox/PS5 platforms? I have an Xbox and my experience is it’s really hard to get those DS “advantages” using controller. And DS is not preventing my skill from progressing, I’m still learning about other types of melee weapons, they definitely have their advantages.
Yes, “Psyker can handle havoc without the dueling sword,” I completely agree. There are also YouTube videos where Psyker completes Havoc with just a sword. Also there is videos with Havoc 40 Duo Ogryns melee only. Also there is a video with H40 Zealot solo speedrun due to bug of enemy spawning. But is there any comprehensive statistics on this topic? I mean, can we say that these specific cases represent the overall gaming experience for most players?
I absolutely agree with your position on game balance. But we need to consider some important factors:
- Balancing can go on forever, as we can see in other games that have existed for about 20 years and continue to be balanced (e.g Warcraft 3 still receives patches)
- When balancing, there’s a risk of making everything average. I mean, after some iteration, you could pick any weapon and get the same result. The only differences would be skins/animations/effects. So what’s the point then? Everything will be “everything is just ok, nothing special, just pick any”.
So when someone’s raising the question of balance, as well as things like “massively overpowered” and “best possible option,” we need to consider real numbers and statistics over a long period, which only the developers have. Only devs can say, for example, “over the last six months, 70% of players only play with DS” or something like that. And that’s a real argument to nerf/buff I guess. Such decisions should not be made solely based on opinions from a certain number of people. There should always be driven by numbers and statistics. Until there are clear and definite numbers, we can only operate on couple of personal opinion and background.
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Guy, tbh we all know that a player with controller cannot reach the control level that you will get with a keyboard and mouse.
I know that you can use keyboard and mouse on xbox… but I did not test with darktide to see if it works… If I remember well, Darktide on console does not allow it.
But we cannot put a player with a controller as the standard experience to consider for balancing weapons…
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This is exactly what I’m talking about in the context of some people requesting DS nerf. PC Dueling Sword is the same Dueling Sword on Xbox/PS5.
So it’s all about personal experience vs overall gaming experience for most players. And there is no solution until we have clear statistics for a curtain huge period. Only devs have it.