You can certainly die as an Ogryn, whatever through attrition, disablers or burst damage, but atm it’s the easiest class (which I think was the always the intention) to survive in Havoc and top the damage charts too. Weapons like Rumbler are just overtuned, and I again I would argue almost as disruptive to other players experience as Smite. All that visual and audio noise is just annoying.
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Who said theyre invincible? You menton ‘fax’ but youve fabricated what you want in your ehad from this instead of asking to discuss.
Youre right though, Ogryn isnt survivable and definitely hasnt had a ton of players main it now due to this perceived survivability buff. What am I like.
You’re the one stating something like it’s fact. Nothing to do with my ehad, thanks ahem.
It’s on you to prove your statement delivered as fact, not mine to disprove it.
No one is denying Ogryn has become easier to use but I suggest it’s not as extreme as people think. He’s just the new kid on the block and for all we know many people were bored out of their minds with meta zealot or psycher and are now able to try out something a bit different.
If veteran suddenly got loads of buffs then everyone would simply be calling for vet to be nerfed because it’s the new thing right Infront of their faces.
I’ve not seen a “nerf zealot!!11” or "nerf psycher!!11” thread in a while.
I can’t remember the name of the phenomenon but it’s called ‘exposure bias’ or similar. I think that’s what’s going on with Ogryn, personally.
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Why rumbler? It’s slow to reload, has a pretty small explosion radius, and actually rarely kills anything aside from chaff on anything above malice.
Also, I don’t use mods so don’t see scoreboards.
Before Ogryn buff though, was it not psycher getting the mad damage stats?
I mean, I kinda expect Ogryn to have the biggest damage output, no?
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Your’s is not, because it’s complete waffle, and doesn’t take a single % of what a sabre is into account.
DS, need to be removed the game. The are an OP sh*t show, that doesn;t actually represent what they are whether IRL, fantasy, or in a a sci-fi setting.
The clue in what they are, is in the name of the weapon, dueling, where speed matters, just like a fencing sword.
It’s insane to think they should be effective against armour. They are just not designed for that in any setting.
Stupid weapons, in a poorly balance game that has no justification for existing.
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It’s also the a big target, and should draw a lot of the enemies attention.
Its a fact a lot of people agree with. I dont really know what else you need. Are you here to discuss or defend your position or what? You just come back with ‘I Suggest’ type posts which I dont agree with. Its quite smple. I dont get almost any of yur posts in this thread, and have said previously.
Im not calling for Ogryn to be nerfed. Ive said in another thread its needed. Its needed for a tank class to be so tough, given DT hectic gameplay (I only play havoc or auric mael when testing) that most people can play it to the standard expected. The expected standard for any Ogryn is to regen a lot and be the aggromanet.
Stop putting words in my mouth, stop making up whatever you want to fit how you feel about what you tink Im saying and read what Im saying and respond. Im bored of you mocking my typing ability, its the only useful critique youve given the entire balance discussion.
The fact you’re asking this shows me your ‘credentials’ regardng knowing what youre on about. In higher difficulty games Rumbler is the go-to. Its cc’s, it nukes, it has good boss damage, it has good ammo management when taken into consideration in conjunction with Scavenger.
Its not waffle if I intentionally DO NOT BALANCE AROUND IRL. How clearer can I make it?
Look at the Arbites post from FS. The dog will always be in your sight. Are dogs like this in real life? Much less cybernetically enhanced ‘mastiffs’ ? No. Simply no.
This game (its a game) is not balanced around real life (because its a game, not real life).
Have you fenced before? I have. Foils Epee’s and sabres are used. Youre entire arguement based on its name is exactly the same as what I said earlier regarding balance around what the item looks like. I mean, I’m not trying to convince you, I wanty disagreement why the DS shouldn’t be nerfed and discussion about ways we think a balanced state of balance can be found. But saying ‘IRL MY FIREBALL STAFF SWINGS NOT SWONGS’ is flatout ridiculous but not as much as saying 'the lasgun looks like the auto stub gun and this is bullkark and needs fixed. Theyre guns. Swords are swords. Finesse seems to only be understoof by you in game, which is ironic since nothing else is.
Why get rid of it altogether? Because… its not realistic? Is that what youre saying? Then what about the Plasma Gun…
EDIT
My ‘waffle’ doesn’t take into account what a sabre or foil is, but Im the one asking for cleave nerfs on the ‘Dueling’ sword and have 150+ replies on my thread. Youre a total karking moron to say that.
I need to ask you again, have you or do you fence, I wont take balance proposals from someone elses youtube video letalone someone elses IRL video not related to the game. Do you even know what my points are for balancing it? Have you read? Thanks.
It is waffle, 100% waffle.
Once again, you don’t undestand simple basic English. People are not just saying IRL, but in fantasy and sci-fi settings to.
Way to go and completely IGNORE this important part of the CONTEXT.
It makes NO SENSE IN ANY CAPACITY, that is the point.
What you are asking is for it to be something that it is not. So I couldn’t give single damn about your so called nerfs. It’s just smoke and mirrors for your butthurt feelings, that your stupid OP weapons, just needs to go completely. It’s a stupid weapon, made by stupid developers, who have never heard of the word balance.
And the nerfs you are asking for, don’t address the issue with sword. It’s like you banged your head on something, and some how think we will all for this BS.
this is a blatant lie
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Rumbler doesn’t ruin the game, dueling sword does.
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How very 1337!
Just because Ogryn gunner options are dog water at higher difficulties and everyone chooses rumbler because it has range and reasonable movement, it doesn’t make it some sort of god killer. But because it gets chosen the most must make it OP? Really weird logic. A favourite weapon doesn’t equal OP.
Again your conflating 2 metrics and coming back with your ‘concrete facts’ (wrapped in wonderful and barely glazed ad hominem quips).
I get you enjoy the thrill of ‘battling’ strangers on the internet but tone it down a bit eh?
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No it is not.
How is this a lie?
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How?
Why not elaborate instead of making a baited quip?
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I have been calling out low skill takes since the early days as a forum goblin. Being generally polite does not mean i won’t call it like i see it.
This isn’t what happened or why. Adding weapon diversity where it doesn’t conflict with the established lore is based and funpilled. Balance can come second but does need to come. Though after seeing how this community responds to “release now, tweak later” i’m rethinking that approach.
Good for them! Casual play is fun and i encourage it if thats for you. Gameplay balance does not conflict with the objective of casual play: having fun. But many people have this view. I see it all the time as i have broad interactions with this “community”.
People like me who like havoc are part of the enduring population of the game. If we have no where to go we stop making the kind of slow and steady pulse community. projects that keep niche games like this alive. Fatshark also made a new mode for casual players and its fun and entertaining. These are not wasted dev resources in either case.
Ah, the classic appeal to indifference.
Yes they will. But if the marginal gap between good and best is too large it generates a caustic overton window that generates innate power creep. This is seen by every casual player and “havoc 40 clearer” who thinks that the dueling sword is the only reliable and viable way to clear high level content. They, and you to one extent or another, think the dueling sword is “normal” and that we should buff all the other weapons to meet its power level. Using the DS as a reference point for balance is the entire problem. No other weapon comes close. All other balance problems, like the knife, have completely contracted in relative power discrepancies compared to what the DS brings to the table. The data backs me up on this.
Well i’m not one and i don’t push for that. I just started a conversation the other day about how vet’s ranged oriented play style is lagging behind in accessibility and power. Still playable if you’re good though.
And the DS is not required for either psyker (lol, as if this class is not very strong in melee) and vet in the first place.
Yes. It is.
No, its not. Because of the associated mobility and time costs required to achieve those breakpoints. Also their TTKs are longer than DS lmao. Balancing costs for benefits is game balance. Having no costs and all benefits is bad, aka the DS.
Yes. I am an expert in this subject and i talk to lots of people with different opinions. Who better?
I know and that is based, and so do I. So do all the evil playtesters ive talked to. But casuals do not know why they like what they like or why the game is fun. They don’t think about concepts like Zone of Proximal Development, balance point Split effects, stagger cleave hitstop mechanics…etc. casual players are an incredibly important part of the lifespan of this game (which i care about because i am a filthy DT addict). What makes them happy is monkey neuron activate. Why monkey neuron activate doesnt matter to them but it matters to me and the DS4 eliminates opportunities for monkey neuron to activate by relative power structures.
Moderate nerfs to the DS will make the game better for everyone.
From time to time but rarely and with much bemusement.
My off meta clears include 4 pre-buff melee only ogryn and no meta gear no overtoughness nothing games. Low effort reply.
I do not do this. Except for testing purposes.
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I didnt say they are dogwater. there you go again. I myself almost only use the Ripeprgun because its the closest thing to a termnator assalt cannon, and I hate using the most cruth aka meta weapons, personally.
Its not a god kilelr, but when theres 4 bosses on screen its a Boss killer more than any other weapon and in a legue of its own. Im sorry, youre not only balancing around IRL, youre trying to balance around IRL. I respect your opinion, but you are wrong.
At this point I personally think you and DeathGuard are just trolling. But at least he knows what hes talking about.
No, I said it.
So no, there I don’t go again. 
Pot, meet kettle. (Those are IRL items btw! So I guess you might have trouble understanding their significance).
You’re the troll in this thread dude. Abrassive to the Nth degree to everyone.
I’m out.
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God these threads on the DS are f***ing cursed with trolls 
Adjusting every other weapon to be on the same level as the DS4 would introduce an insane level of power creep.
DS4 needs to be toned down slightly and the other DS marks also need slight adjustments because their moveset sucks.
And similar to the ogryn, other classes’ worst weapons need some boosts to get them out of garbage-tier. It’s not rocket science !
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How can I be a troll if I know what I’m talking about.
Strange one that.