And Vet was totally busted then and every game had 2 vets in it that just W+M1d through the level with an autogun or plasma. I’m not sure why we’re revising history and saying that never happened and it was bad.
Infact it’s still now being done with psykers and kickback ogryns and that deserves the nerf next. It NEEDS to go. It’s terrible for the game to have such trivializing things in it. I literally leave missions if people do this because it’s so boring.
What? All games I had was Ogryns, Zealot running solo and Psykers blowing up the map, with the odd Plasma Vet here and there (most of them playing pretty badly). Plasma/Revolver Vet is very good, but come on now you can’t tell me it was stronger than any other crap.
I’ve seen 1 autogun for every 10 Infantry autogun, and as dumb and OP that weapon was (IAG), it still wasn’t even near something like Hybrid Ogryn, Psyker or a well played Zealot.
I feel like I’m living in a different universe. Are you playing with Discord premades only or something?
I mean I’ve come across vets blowing themselves up wit hthe plasmagun and it literally has a safety built in. People being bad with the weapons doesn’t exactly justify how absurdly powerful they are in even an average players hands. To begin with, someone who is that bad wouldn’t be doing any better with more ammo so what exactly is your point?
No, you can reply to the other parts of my post.
Whats your point exactly? You keep going “but what about…” and I’m telling you that stuff is OP too. I’m not at any point defending psykers or autogun zealots thats just the same kind of busted and needs to be toned down.
Optimally game balance should reach a point where you can actually have difficult encounters again. This currently doesn’t exist. You can literally spawn 500 ragers in the psykhanium together with an array of specials and some crushers and many of the strong loadouts can take it all down on their own.
I’m pointing out that my experience is insanely different from yours, and even if you had more Vet’s on your team, shooter Vet was basically a bottom of the “strenght” list. Only exception for this was running plasma (which was still weaker than hybrid builds), IAG (which was more powerful on psyker), and revolver (which was just as good and better when it was run by a Hybrid build and almost as good on Zealot).
Yes, but that’s an entirely different issue. You know I’m team “game is too easy”, but I still find the aura nerf, with 0 follow-up to Vet’s ammo resource ridiculous.
You can buff back shooters, increase reliance on coherency, nerf mobility across the board, nerf DR across the board, nerf CDR across the board, nerf problem weapons like IAG, Kickback, revolver, and it would all make more sense than to kick a core build that already subpar and feels bad to play.
It’s deeply related atleast
I don’t disagree that nerfing ammo econ isn’t the best way to handle balance. But at the same time when’s the last time you’ve seen someone run the agripina revolver? A pretty decent and balanced weapon in my opinion but completely unused past the couple days after the update. Same with pre-buff zarona revolver and pre-buff plasmagun. Nobody used those things. Everyone just used the MG12 instead because it had infinite ammo and let you oneshot most things.
The point I’m trying to make is if they want to go for that route they have to nerf all the OP stuff otherwise you’re just creating the situation where you’re now balancing the game around a revolver with unlimited ammo but there’s only one revolver and the other weps don’t even compare. It creates this situation where you can now either nerf the revolver and get communtiy drama and bad steam reviews (see: what happened to the powersword) or you can just buff everything and turn the game into a joke.
I personally think as a quick fix to playerpower keeping the ammo econ in check is ok. It’s not the optimal solution in the long term but it’s something they must do for now unless they make a patch right now balancing all the weapons properly.
You saw what happened when p13 rumbler ogryns briefly had the ammo economy of pre-survivalist change rumbler ogryns (via that exploit). Absoltue terminally ill gameplay consisting of just spamming grenades all game long. Pre-change post-13 survivalist was very similar for vet gameplay (AND gun zealots and psykers and kickbackers) and that was before people figured out en masse how to trivialize the game with the revolver and wep specialist.
One viable alternative is to just put the ammo econ on VT2 levels but introducing a new difficutlty mode with severe FF. Now the people who just wanna w+m1 through missions can do it on current difficulty and people like me who don’t want the missions to be trivialized like that can queue for auric 2.0. I would say everyone would be pleased, except I am certain that people who hate FF will still play it just because it’s the highest difficulty and then whine about FF. Just like how technically anyone complaining about this could play heresy where your ranged build functions for 100% of the time and there’s more ammo.
I’m a little out of the loop but i played survivalist marksmans focus vet with a graia braced auto gun the day before last and never ran out of ammo really.
I just wanna know if its really that bad or not is all. Graia braced, last i checked, is a notoriously bad bullet waster.
Zarona was overbuffed, and both felt bad to use before they got their buffs. Plasma felt best pre patch 13, after it stopped dealing limb damage, I didn’t even care about the health damage.
I don’t think number of users correlate with power necessarily. Post nerf PS was worse than Caxe, people still used it. Sabre was better than Force Sword (before Illisi) and it was rarely used.
Key is to make weapons not redundant (so they can have niche) and make them feel good to use. When those are successful it doesn’t matter how much percentage of the playerbase is running them.
So why not do that? That’s why I’m baffled by this change. You can reign in outliers without introducing something that feels bad to play, dumbstering already subpar builds in the process.
Otherwise game balance have much larger holes than that. I’m all for harder difficulty, but the game balance is currently downright broken with every weapon being a generalist and mobility/DR being through the roof, while shooters/elites can just be bulldozed.
I played agri, and it’s kinda ok on the ammo front, if you find ammo crate for event. I only played it a few times for testing since if I’m doing braced I just play it on Zealot, cos it feels better there.
I don’t personally struggle either even with the post-change survivalist but I also don’t literlaly hold down m1. It was definitely possible before the surv changes to literally unironically tape down m1. Maybe you had to stop on elevators and in other “just transit” spaces with no enemies. Maybe
Thank you for this. That moon logic statement that keeps getting repeated was driving me mad, glad somebody is rightfully asking what the hell people think they’re talking about.
we have ammo economy, your aim is just bad. sorry but the truth has to be said.
That sounds exactly as what it is, a pathetic attempt at ad hominem. Relax hotshot.
You should be fine using most weapons most games if there’s no Rambo on your team even now post nerf. The thread got a bit derailed as one might expect but in my opening statement I said :
People have gotten used to shooting less mostly. Maybe the game is slightly less fun for some people because of it but happily not for me (unless Rambo is present, even though I might be playing a class that doesn’t shoot at that particular time).
I went gun Psyker in an attempt to prove myself wrong again but the conclusion is the same. It works and you can do it even without wasting ammo. But that’s it, it works. You’re not playing into your strengths. But just about anything simply works if you have half a brain and some experience in this game. Also in the meanwhile I saw a Rambo and clipped him. This is not to shame the player in question, the man wanted blood and wanted to vent out some steam, even if in this particular case he was shooting at the air. He was not in fact a real Rambo because later on he started measuring a bit more.
Narrator: It isn’t *
/* I mean the ammo situation. I also use Graia braced on zealot when I feel like spray and pray. YES I just open up on hordes if I feel like it, and somehow I still manage to leave ammo behind for others.
I regularly open a full ammo crate at the mission extraction. If someone insists at going full auto at pox walkers (and likely miss a lot of those shoots), then I can believe they might struggle with ammunition, especially if they are too lazy to look around for it.
You can go virtually all ranged if you want in Darktide, but there is a reason why Darktide has melee weapons. This isn’t Destiny, or Helldivers. I see no reason why the ammo counter in the game should be there just for legacy reasons. It’s a counter, not an infinity sign.
Opinion:
honestly i think the nerf is a fine-ish for now, imma be honest, there’s enough ammo in most missions but sometimes you get a bad ammo spawn and that is why we have our melee weapons.
Solutions to the current balance:
it is part of the game to not always have abundant ammunition, just adapt your gameplay if you struggle.
if a player is hoarding all the ammo, they’re idiots and a swift ‘‘ESC, social, vote to kick’’ does the job, maybe they’ll learn : )
Thoughts on improving the aura:
now, i still think the aura is still good in low difficulties but, the higher you go, the less its usefull.
i think we could have an individual cooldown on each vet so it isnt useless to have two vets with this aura (idk if its the case now tbh)
maybe just scale the bonus with difficulty
or simply buff it a little (1s cooldown)
Imo one of the better ways is to let it be 1 sec for team and no cooldown but less ammo per kill for you than it used to. I still pick the aura because I like being team focused even on my practically melee vets. But the aura must be more valuable to you personally with a bit more umf than what it gives to others, at least in principle. Example, the Ogryn charged attacks aura is great on ogryn and can be decent on vet and zealot, it’s useful. But for the vast majority of psyker builds it does nothing. There are some exceptions like the psyker crit aura, but even then some ogryn weapons have basically 0 crit chance so it equals to functionally nothing anyway.
Vid really puts into perspective how some people may struggle with ammo post patch and some don’t.
I get it’s annoying when other people waste ammo and put the teams ammo econ in the red but thats quite literally the intended mechanic. It’s a coop game with team resource management. I’ve said this before but there is literally no way to make compelling team resource management in a coop game unless you allow one person to waste stuff selfishly.
If you don’t allow one person to waste stuff, then the team resource management is completely pointless.
The same is true for healing etc too. One guy can completely ruin the team by triple dipping on healing stations and using medkits as personal resources, depending on how the team is doing.
This would make sense if it impacted everyone the same. It doesn’t.
Your melee or hybrid build cares not at all if someone wastes all the resources. Meanwhile any ranged build becomes non-functional if all the ammo is wasted.
Your argument would only hold water if this was a game where every build of every character used ammo the same amount.
This is not the game that Darktide is. Thus it is inane and idiotic design, soft-forcing people into builds that do not need ammo. This is a bad thing, regardless of how anyone personally plays, or would want the game to play.
I’ve said it before, if this is now the intended mechanic for Darktide, they need to remove all ranged builds in the talent trees. They should probably also, at the same time, remove the 40K from the title of the game.