End-Game Progression + XP Gains + Suggestions

Does leveling up past 30 require more and more XP each level or is it a fixed amount? (question mainly for the devs). Can we please get a visual number so we know what we need for each level up?

Mainly I made this topic because its boring only getting XP after a mission. XP should be acquired by killing, assisting in killing, reviving, multi-kills/combo, etc… Displayed on screen-in-mission when attained, this could be toggled in Options/Settings (graphical feedback).

Like most RPGs, the XP curve grows the higher your level, IMO this is a system of the past and needs to be reinvigorated. Level should be non-cappable, continue forever and XP (maybe after lvl30) is capped at X amount that keeps the player feeling like progression is constant.

In addition:

  1. XP at the end of a mission should also include remaining HP and downs, revives, etc. accounted for less awarded for downs and revives (think L4D). More emphasis on how well a person/team performed when handling XP at the end of a match as well.

  2. Currency. Possibly a currency added that can be used and found on dead enemies or stashes (make exploration more rewarding), in chests. Used to buy “loot boxes” NO MTA (commission), buy Deeds, whatever else the devs can come up with.

  3. Show XP numbers. We know how much we are acquiring after a level but we have no indication of how much we need for each level up, simple toggle option in settings to alleviate this.

  4. Show damage numbers option per hit, enunciating crits with different color (& bigger font?). Hard to tell currently when crit’ing.

  5. Let us change gear, talents at the beginning of a match (starting drop off point). Nothing worse than not having a competent team comp…

  6. Remove ‘Ranald’s Gift’ from the loot box equation or ensure it has ZERO impact on how end level loot is calculated. It’s no fun completing a level FLAWLESSLY only to get screwed by the RNG of ‘Rgift’. Or rework it to be based on player(s) evaluation post mission.

  7. Legendaries suffer from current WoW syndrome. Fix: add epics (purple rarity) to loot pool. Make Legendaries TRULY legendary (possibly named after Lore figures/events/places?)

  8. Dumb you have to lose HP to gain HP overshield for respective talents (gain temporary HP)

  9. Option to mute specific characters. Love to mute the elf that only seems to talk sh*t about how bad the others characters are, and “Lumberfoot + Mayfly/ies” are quickly becoming some of my most hated words.

  10. Ability to toggle AFK like in L4D; “take a break”

  11. Potions do not last long enough. 15 - 30sec? Play with time and buff to make fair.

  12. Some class buffs are pathetic (e.g. Saltz - Crit chance group buff, only 6sec is ridic, at least 10sec).

  13. Dynamic spawns for tomes. Give us a reason(s) to explore…If added, make tomes worth more.

  14. False sense of difficulty in boss fights. As time passes more and more adds spawn, this is bad game design, a good boss fight has semi-predictable mechanics. This is especially a problem on Halescourge and Skittergate.

  15. Heroes that have dash ability ULT: each should have some sort of damage/debuff/dot added (alike Kerillian). Kruber dash is nice but if you dash right into a group you wind up in the middle and possibly in a situation where you are now surrounded…lackluster, needs tuning.

  16. When an appropriate loot chest level has been determined, soldier’s/general/etc. if there is any remaining of the bar, instead of wasting it into nothingness, convert it to bonus XP.

  17. Option of what to do next when a mission fails; Retry or Go back to Hub

  18. Saltz cannot shoot when out of ammo while using talent (Prize Bounty) - “Shots affected by Blessed Shots do not consume ammo” - maybe bug, maybe working as intended (need at least 1 ammo remaining?), talent is misleading

  19. Damage taken (at post game stats, circled value) should equal whomever took the least amount of damage, not highest, highest is nothing to brag about

  20. Loot Die - these could take the place of what Ranald’s Gift does, as with when die/dice are cast, you can get anything from 1-* depending on die/dice. Instead of a fixed amount of XP added it should be random, 1/4 level to 1-1/2 level (*6 correlating with most common die/dice, possible sides). Additionally, at least 1 should always spawn on each mission (max 3?)

  21. Gutter-Runner (special enemy) should not do as much initial damage as they do. Getting pounced is many times impossible to avoid, the initial pounce is what I’m talking about, not the damage they do once a player is locked down. Hunters were no where near this broken in L4D, not to mention Hunters were always on the map once loaded in and didn’t have that disappear and can’t be attacked BS Gutter-Runners do.

  22. Do not allow more than 1 of each special enemy to be spawned at the same time.

  23. Special enemy spawn times are ridiculous sometimes, just killed a Packmaster, well, another JUST spawned, there should be a little bit of reprieve…

  24. Filters added for “Quick Play”, mainly would like a checkbox to only search for other players that use a mic. The runs where everyone has a mic succeed much more than those where no one else is using a mic.

  25. Prestige system? Kind of fun starting over from Recruit difficulty. Can only be activated at/after level 30.

  26. DLC characters. Will buy, especially if we get a convert Chaos Warrior playable character.

  27. When/if doing DLC-MTA, DO NOT CHARGE FOR MAPS, please. Maps should be free for all players, not doing this will split the pool of players.

  28. Icon showing who is talking (microphone)

  29. Empty chests, 9 times out of 10 regardless of the difficulty these are empty? Why? Not sure, are they dynamic spawns or static? If static, then being empty mainly makes more sense. More reasons why there should be a currency added.

6 Likes

No, no, no! xp for killing is the worst idea of them all.
Your mission is the objective, you should evade unnecessary fights, not look for them (unless you are a slayer).

@Locien0
It’s not handed out just for killing, I stated assists and other team-play elements. Healing others, giving items (this would have to be regulated as it could be abused), etc… Generous amount of XP for freeing others from lockdown special enemies, I really would like to see more XP rewarded in the form of helping the team.

This all factors into the other statements of reduced XP for downs/deaths. If a player was trying to get all the XP by “farming” others potential kills and running ahead (already an issue to a degree, elf I’m looking at you…) it would be a risk vs reward as they could get downed/killed and lose all that XP, this is semi along the lines of how it works in L4D.

Also, at the higher difficulties most “good” players will not willingly seek out more enemies to “XP farm” too much risk with not enough reward. I don’t see XP per kill being a problem.

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1)These mechanics would only encourage poor gameplay. Already you have people running in front of crowd control heroes just so they can get a few extra kills to pad their stats, which leads to people taking unnecessary damage. This would only make it worse.

2)Even without microstransactions, this is going a step closer towards a model that people attack with seething hatred. Plus it is unnecessary and would belittle the challenge of getting emperors vaults.

3)I see nothing wrong with this, but its not a high priority at the moment. Im sure there will be a mod at some point though.

4)The only time its hard to tell when you crit is with beam staff or drakefire gun or things like that. But again, there will be a mod for this if the devs don’t add it themselves. There is one for Vermintide 1, so rest assured, it will happen. This one will be high priority for modders.

5)This actually was an option in V1, there was a chest in the beginning of the match you could use to acces your inventory and swap things out. I agree they should put it back especially considering how much they encourage quickplay.

6)Ranalds gift, and more importantly rng, is an integral part of what Vermintide is all about. Even if 90% of players wanted it gone(unlikely for that to happen btw) its here to stay.

7)No weapon is meant to be too powerful. They even toned this down from V1 so a white weapon is just as strong as an orange, only difference is orange has more attributes. This is intentional. Plus, they have red tier weapons that have perfect rolls and look unique.

8)Its not dumb. You arent meant to have unlimited health and many people already feel these talents are too strong as is.

9)Maybe if you weren’t such a lumberfoot then you wouldn’t have this problem :stuck_out_tongue:

10)If you think you are going to have to afk soon don’t get in a match. I don’t want people holding me up.

11)Potions are extremely powerful buffs, they don’t need to be stronger you just need to learn how to manage them better and when to use them. Also there is an orange charm trait that increases the duration by 50%

12)His shout also knocks people down, and crits are very powerful. Its good enough to help wipe out a stormvermin patrol or bunch of berserkers or help burst down a boss. Its not meant to be a long time, just long enough to get out of a pinch.

13)NO.

14)I agree those particular bosses have too many adds, but they do have predictable mechanics as well.

To summarize, reading all these suggestions leads me to believe you really don’t have very much time invested into the game yet, and you haven’t spent much of that time in the higher difficulties, if any. Many of the things you call for would actually be terribly OP in even an average players hands, and many more things you mentioned are already in the game, you just haven’t found them yet. The quality of life things you ask for like seeing numbers, I have no problem with. But I don’t believe people should call for nerfs and buffs until they have reached end game content and spent a fair amount of time there, because simply put they don’t know what they are talking about enough to make fair requests.

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The fact that you are asking how the EXP works post level 25 is why you probably haven’t seen more replies. It’s obvious you haven’t experienced the end game yet but you are still trying to change it.

This is your only point I agree with… but then in V1 we had that option. Once you loaded into a map their was a chest behind you to change your weapons out.

25+ Kruber main…Don’t assume things, you’ll end up looking foolish. The 25+ XP is a question for the devs, as I stated we cannot see how much is required for each level up so how are we to know?

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That’s not end game.

My hero levels are:
Kruber: 10
Bardin: 38
Kerillian: 48
Saltzpyre: 24
Sienna: 18

Even with all that time invested I still have only beaten half the maps on Legend. Even if you were a lvl 30 Kruber main, your level only contributes 50% of you hero power. Until you are finding items at power level 300, you aren’t near end game. And even then, you still aren’t in endgame if you aren’t pushing into Legend.

The whole game is basically endgame…Hero power level and gear are the only checks for having an easier time at higher difficulties. Hero level is inconsequential when determining “endgame”, in a loot grinder like this that is in the eye of the beholder.

Unless there are raid(s) I’m not aware of, I argue, I have been playing endgame the moment the campaign was finished…Deeds I would consider the true “endgame” however they are obtained via RNG. Another reason why a currency would be nice. Make the guy at the War Table in hub area a vendor NPC and have him sell Deeds among other things. I like they are consumable which constantly gives players a goal to work towards.

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Endgame, in this context, is the most difficult setting. You have not completed all of the content this game has to offer. Playing on Champ and on Legend are entirely different experiences from playing on Recruit and Vet. These are experiences that you have not had for yourself. Therefore, the point stands that you are making assumptions on balancing issues based on your limited experience that does not account for 50% of the game. At least for some of your suggestions, that is(saltz ult or potions not lasting long enough.) So lets remove the semantics of “endgame” and just say that you do not have enough experience to make such judgments.

Or rather, based on my significantly more in depth experience, I believe that your judgments are made too hastily and that given time and more experience in game, many of the opinions you have expressed would most likely change.

I am not trying to say I have played more and therefore your opinion is invalid. I’m saying that you haven’t had enough experience to accurately judge some of the mechanics you have mentioned. I gave in depth responses to all of your original points in my earlier post, and some of them I even agreed with. Here, I’m basically just asking you not to call for balance changes until you have played the higher difficulties, because that is where many of the issues you have mentioned are balanced.

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i agree with all of it honestly, they did make it more of an rpg game now but the rpg side is lacking…

of course most people on these forums and steam just cry about “changing the game from what it is”

you know… cos adding good legendaries and better talents with more difficulty levels to make up the increase in power just changes the game way too much.

its an action rpg that isnt meant to have rpg mechanics even tho the devs added rpg mechanics…

worst community ever!

2 Likes

Vermintide is not a RPG! There will be no raised levelcap with the next expansion, no new and better gear. There will be no expansion that makes current content irrelevant. Legend will always be the highest difficulty on any map ever. You will have the best gear with very good rolls very fast and it will always remain the best.
The minmal progression systems in place are mainly there to offer some small choices, but the core of the gameplay is action oriented and aimed at challenging yourself. There will be nothing you can achieve after beating Skittergate on Legend with 3 ridiculous affixes from a deed. The reward is completing these challenges and not the lootbox you get afterwards.

@Kurt1220
Your version of endgame differs from others, seems it is an opinion as…I…stated…earlier… Gear, levels, etc. in this game are all padding to improve the resilience of your character which in turn makes for an easier experience as you jump up through the difficulties. I will agree to disagree. After playing some Legend I can say I double down on most if not all of my numbered suggestions. I don’t want it to be easy, I did like how much more methodical/coordinated your team must be, refreshing.
Saying I have not experienced 50% of the game if I was not doing Legend difficulty LOL, what kind of logic is that?! The description is the same as each other level of difficulty up from Recruit, more difficult…wow, would have never guessed…
Once again, last time I’m going to say this to you, don’t assume lest you look foolish.

@vladvoncarstein
I wouldn’t blame the entire community, what I see on forums for the most part are naysayers and pessimists that seem to just want to sh*t on other peoples ideas. Attempting to drag them down, misery loves company. As with any game and forum I post on, I ONLY do so because I like the game and want it to be a better experience for EVERYONE.

@CannonballBardin
You serious with that response LOL
RPG = role-playing-game; if I choose Bardin for example (since your avatar name is this I’m sure you can relate), he has specific things he brings to the team, tanking for further example, this is useful as a ROLE for the team. Like it or not this game is a RPG…
“The reward is completing these challenges and not the lootbox you get afterwards.” - NO, it’s both and you know it. Why do people play Division, Borderlands 1/2, Destiny 1, Diablo 3, etc., just for the challenge right…? It’s rhetorical.

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Well it’s simple logic. There are 4 difficulties. The higher you go the harder it gets. If you have only played on the two easiest difficulties, then you have played 2 out of 4, therefore 50%. And the assumption I made was based on you not even knowing level 30 was the cap, which means you haven’t reached the cap. You also did not know of many of the orange item traits that anyone who was getting orange drops would know. This means that you can not have possibly have played very much.

So in order to avoid any other assumptions I’m going to straight up just ask, what are your character levels and most importantly, what is the average hero power on the items you get from loot chests? Just saying you played legend doesn’t mean much. You can “play” legend long before you are actually ready for it it’s only gated by a minimum hero power requirement, which is much lower than what is actually recommended.

So talking from my hundreds of hours between v1, all the v2 betas, and v2 full release, if you think potions are too weak I hear that as “I’m not that good yet.” And I don’t say that as an insult, it’s just an indicator that you are relatively new.

Many of your suggestions in your post are simply about changing the core of what is and always has been vermintide. You don’t want rng involved with loot. You want to remove Ranald’s gift. You want to add currency(beyond the crafting materials we already get,) you want to add more epic weapons that will doubtlessly out perform the others… While none of these ideas are terrible in their own right, in the context of vermintide it would change the game so much that it would lose the much loved identity that has won over such a loyal fan base. Some change is good, sure, but not if you are turning it into something else entirely. And just because there is a soft “rpg” label on the game, that doesn’t mean it’s a hardcore rpg where you get stat points to put into strength and dex and make choices in dialogue and stuff. It’s an action fps first and foremost, just with some light rpg elements. I mean come on, it’s basically just left 4 dead with rats and loot.

Now, I already layed out a fairly detailed list of my responses to your suggestions, it’s one of the first comments. If you disagree with any of my responses why don’t you elaborate as to why instead of trying to convince people that you have already done everything there is to do and get all philosophical about “my first match was technically end game cuz I was getting loot”

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This is not what role means in RPG. Well at least not originally (think more of role as character not role as a player in a team). Kind of pointless to argue over semantics, but I would say that VT2 is not an RPG and it’s not advertised as one.

I will not relinquish myself to the “justify myself” role you are trying to throw me into, Kurt. I am not here to impress or sway your differing opinion(s). I only ask for things I think would improve the game play which are mainly targeted at the devs, they get to pick and choose if something is truly an issue or not. To say you are ultimately more experienced because X reason(s) is incredibly arrogant and asinine. I will not be considering to your useless replies any longer as it is a waste of time and detracts me from the issues I set forth. You are looking for a word fight, I won’t stoop to your level any longer…you already agreed/disagreed with all the listed points, what more do you want? As my opinion is to you, yours is to me; I don’t care…

I see a few of you hanging on the stupidest of little things, annoyed/mad I used the terminology RPG…wow, grow up. I literally gave you the acronym definition with an example to back it up…and you still refuse to acknowledge reality lol
“Pointless to argue over semantics”…but I’m going to anyway - “Ilex 2018” lol

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Geez, you’ve got a stick up your butt. In my first post I was analytical of yours. I agreed and disagreed but at no point did I use any insulting language, except for one line that was a joke and I even used an emoji to get that across. Your reply was to basically call me and someone else foolish because we assumed you were relatively new(which wasn’t really an assumption it was a very well educated guess based on the fact you admitted in your questions that you weren’t max level and were unaware of orange item traits that most people know about.) Instead of countering my points I made, you just dismissed the whole comment as foolish because you “had reached end game the second you started the game.” From here, I just tried to explain to you that there was still much more you had yet to experience. I still did not stoop to name calling or insulting you.

I just suggested you give it more time before calling for balance changes. That was literally it. But you just had to go and get nasty with your replies as if you are the almighty poster and everyone else is inferior to your sarcastic wit. You just keep arguing that you know what you know unequivocally and anyone who assumes you are inexperienced is a fool. Then I just asked you for your hero level, not so I can laugh at you and call you a noob but because I didn’t want to keep “assuming” and just wanted to know.

Instead of countering any of my points with points of your own, you just attack my character and pretend you are counterattacking but I have never attacked you in the first place so really you’re just being arrogant and evasive.

What the actual !@#$. I don’t want a word fight you ninny, I wanted a conversation. You gave your points, I gave my opinion on your points. At that point, if you actually wanted to discuss this topic you should have given your opinion on my counterpoints, not just said some bs line like “if you assume things about me,(regardless if its based on clear evidence) you only make yourself look foolish.” Learn to hold a civil debate why don’t you.

No its not. Its entirely quantifiable. Have you ever seen Footknight Kruber use a concentration potion to stunlock a boss and your team kills it before it even gets a single attack off? Probably not, otherwise you wouldn’t be asking to make said potion last even longer. The reason I wanted to know how much time you spent in the harder difficulties is because that is where most of the more skilled players spend their time. If you only spent any significant amount of time in recruit and veteran then you haven’t seen most of the strategies that players have come up with. And thus, since you have not seen what is currently possible, you have no grounds on which to say what is or is not entirely balanced. Now, if you want me to stop making assumptions on how much you played and on what difficulty, you could just tell me, otherwise assuming is all i can do. Until then, stop being rude to people for no damn reason other than them disagreeing with you.

Sadly, if you are going to constantly act like you know what you are talking about you better be able to prove that you are where you are. If you haven’t done all missions on Champion, then a lot of what you are talking about holds little to no merit when you talk about ‘balances’.

I have several friends now that can queue up in PUBLIC legendary games and win… pretty often, so much so that one has half the maps, the other has all but 2 maps. Which leads me to just completely disregard anything you ‘THINK’ needs balancing.

If you aren’t going to provide your basic hero power or SHOW how many maps you’ve done on Champ or Legend then there is zero point in arguing with someone who can’t do things in the game that a good portion of others can do but demands balances and changes anyway

I have nothing to prove to anyone here…
Dispute, mock, disagree, agree, complain, ultimately your replies don’t matter. What does matter is if the devs are watching and do decide some/all of what I’ve put forth is worth expanding upon.

What you request, is like asking someone to justify their actions/intentions/ideas to their coworkers, a person is not beholden to them, management are the only ones to be concerned with…a few of you don’t seem to grasp that concept :smile:
I wonder, are @Jackal0021 & @Kurt1220 the same person on different accounts? hmmm

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You have everything to prove.
You want the devs to listen to you? You need PLAYERS to listen to you. One man going against the grain will not change the devs.

I ask you what your stats were and if you done all champion because you sound full of yourself. If you showed otherwise I would be MORE than happy to start breaking down your points on why things dont need to be balanced using your points but until you can show you are not a scrub with access to the internet I will proceed with thinking you are just bad at the game and lack understanding of simple tactics and mechanics.

But no, you’re right you dont need to prove anything to me or anyone else here that you are bad at the game.

Also if you have to make a comment that two different poster are the same person to attempt to bring more merit to your ranting then you are too far gone and I can’t wait for the next thread made by another person who is equally bad as you to bury this point. Right now the people replying to you are attempting to understand you, and instead of allowing them to understand you you get extremely defensive and spew out ‘i dont need to prove any’ the same thing any person who didn’t complete all champion or some legends would say… if you don’t convince the people replying to you, then your post will never go further than just being another ramblings of a bad player demanding things to be changed.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu