Elf spear heavy attack

Please consider changing the order of the heavy attack of the elf spear as follows: H1-Stab, H2-sweep.

This would make it more viable to deal with armored enemies.

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So kill the current best way to kill armored enemies aka 2x light stabs into heavy stab?

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There is no need for that really, not to mention the fact that such change would ruin the shield push followed by immediate heavy cleave for AoE CC/dmg combo.

I think he meant spear, not spear & shield.

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To be fair, that only really works and is necessary for stormvermin, being able to instantly heavy stab would make dealing with CW´s and beastigors a fair bit easier. And i suspect it´d be possible to code so that the light stabs always chain into that heavy anyway.

-…

I may also have bias against the first heavy since i cant figure out what the heck that attack is supposed to be good for.

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Indeed, my bad. Though I think the same thing can be said about the spear as well… if I remember the attack chains correctly - the push followed by heavy sweep combo spam.

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I personally think the weapon needs very little in terms of changes to be reasonably good. (which it already kind of is)
Some tweaks to headshot angles so it would not be as awkward as it sometimes now is and maybe some headshot multiplier on top and that’s it.
Its perfectly cata capable even now. (CW:s are probably the weapons only bad matchup)

Ehhh, i wont deny that the weapon is pretty great at dealing with Skaven and even Rotbloods, its one of the few weapons i think does really well with both monks&maulers.

Even several of them.

But, i find beastmen a real terror with it, their sheer mass+range+speed and their sheer height, leaves me struggling much more with them. I always end up feeling like i need a weapon with either more cleave or more mobility to avoid trading hits. That even goes for times when other factions send out dense hordes, or shields.

But thats when fighting purely with the spear, it is possible to reduce the impact of that with one thing or another.

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the stabs all already chain into themselves

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I was unclear, i was trying to to state that he shouldnt have to worry much even if the present system of L1&L2 chaining into h2 would be messed up if h1 and h2 got swapped. That since it´d probably be easy to re-code the attackchains so the light stabs keep chaining into the heavy stab.

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so the sweep would then only be accessible if you followed up the 1st heavy with another heavy?

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A good option would be:

Heavy 1 = stab, heavy 2 = sweep.
Then push attack (light sweep) + Heavy sweep.

Or the third light, possibly via the push-attack as well.

But well i do not like that heavy much admittedly, i cant figure out anything it´s actually particularly useful for. The heavy stab is much better for armor and a mix of lights&push attacks are better for hordes.

It looks like its a cleave&stagger attack but it isnt particularly good at it.

The combo is now push attack + H1 heavy stab. And then H1 (heavy sweep) + H2 heavy stab

That doesn’t work well for hordes, or armored elites either.
The logical combination would be: push attack + H2 heavy sweep, to deal hordes. And H1 heavy stab for individual elites.

Definitely against making every weapon the same. Tons of weapons already use “light=sweep heavy=anti-armor”. Making them all work that way would be super boring.

Honestly looking at the numbers, the spear is great. The more effort it takes to reach a good attack on a weapon, the stronger it can be, and Heavy2 (stab) on elf spear I think might be the highest single headshot damage she can do?

Obviously overall weapon balance has to come first, so if reaching that combo costs more than it’s worth, sure it could change. To me that doesn’t feel like the case right now, and I’ve learned to swing
early (either hitting swarm, or deliberately swinging at the air) before I charge the Heavy2 (stab) and also use its great movement acceleration to headshot the SV or CW.

If anything changed, it should be the armor-piercing ability of the 1-2 light attacks you have to do to reach Heavy2. That would smooth out the “flow” of the weapon best without ruining the uniqueness of it.

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On unarmored targets, yes, most which do not survive 1-2 of light attacks to the head anyway. Notable exception is bosses who…often get demolished by abilities anyway.

So yeah, no.

Right now the heavy stab is subpar for being something that requires prep to use and on armor its actually on the lower end of all her weapons. And thus i think it really ought to have h2 become h1 so one can at least skip the hassle of attacking the air before/while walking up to an elite. Which only really serves to highlight how dang useless the present h1 is anyway, it hardly even has a place in a horde clearing combo.

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Dno that seems like just changing the pattern because you don’t like it and not necessarily because the weapon itself benefits from it.

And what comes to your beastmen example, well all I can say is that I don’t have particularly many problems dealing with them. Tough this comes from a person who has used spear pretty heavily since launch.

At any rate I just don’t like the idea of messing with a weapon that is pretty perfectly balanced atm but maybe that’s just me.

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It’s for mobility. The full heavy chain is good for kiting because both heavies have a great movement curve and decent stagger. You use the sweep heavy when kiting to deal with trash, following with a heavy stab for single targets, with the heavy sweep still dealing acceptable armour damage if you headshot. A weapon like the Billhook has a better single target dps heavy chain (which is more useful damage-wise) but this comes at the cost of its movement curve being mediocre with heavy chaining.

It’s practically the same as the Halberd’s heavy sweep, except it has good mobility and well… isn’t a bad attack.

Personally, I’d like the heavy sweep to have slightly more cleave (Bretonnian Longsword’s L1 might be a good level of cleave to match) so that the heavy sweep > light stab > light sweep > light stab chain is more rewarding than the safer push attack chain. Would be a pretty minor buff that I’d say the Halberd’s heavy sweep could use as well.

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they still never slapped armour sliding on that heavy sweep either :upside_down_face:

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I seem to remember that in the balance mod halberd H1 had a cleave modifier that didn’t make it through to the BBB. Does it have any cleave modifiers on it currently?

Edit: Posted before I saw Incan’s comment. Yeah I miss that juicy armour sliding from the mod. Guess FS thought it was just a bit too much.

Ok so it ought to still cleave decently with that modifier. I take it the value is just kinda low then.

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