Elf careers shade and handmaiden low risk high reward

Nah daggers for me, I hate glaive ever since it was touched yet people still want it changed lol. It’s like they don’t even use it themselves nor read patch notes.

And I know the angle is narrow but if I literally face the back of something’s head and stabbing it anywhere between the head and it’s ankles I expect to get some ammo back… It’s sometimes so inconsistent that I just straight-up go for head chopping instead more often than not.

huh, this is weird. it’s incredibly consistent for me to the point that i will know when a strike gives ammo or not due to the angle i hit him at. could it be a lag issue? and yea, i don’t like the glaive on a shade. the angle of attacks are sweeping which is not precise, and ult is also kinda slow to build up.

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Possibly, was planning on doing some host/client testing today, just risky on legend - though if I still notice it’s inconsistent I might record or something, I dunno. It might be host lag not sending the animation through in time which would cause me to miscalculated the time needed to get behind the mob before it recovers. But I’ve had ammo from pushed down/pushed back mobs from weird angles before so I think they have some reviewing to do on that area - Comforting to know you’re getting consistent results though so I’ll practice it more c:

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My own sentiment is that the backstab area is so small and inconsistent, it might very well not even exist at all.

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Well, read carefully what I said. Getting ammo by backstabbing is normal practice for me, even if I don’t waste that much ammo and scrounger works good for me, I need to do backstabs from time to time.

I’m playing daggers crit + crit multiplier build.
There are kind of situations as I experienced them.

Horde. I’m just casually staying watching backs of my Bardin/Sienna whoever slaying horde, targeting specials, killing them.

Ambush. Well most of time I’m immediately activating ultimate and trying to find safe spot for team, where is minimum chance to get surrounded.

Walking forward. As the most maps actually just a long corridor, you walking them, and enemies almost always in front, until some decide to jump from cliff on your back. You not pulling 1 pack per time, usually it’s 2-4 of packs. Like normal placeholders, some roaming SV with a bunch of clan rats etc. Getting behind them is kinda risky I would say. There is always option of silent special coming for you, and you are zoned from team with those 2-4 elites and 5+ trash. As a pug player, I won’t even try that.
More damage from behind is good, but who needs it, if you one-shot SV in the face with one crit from on headshot. There is always a chance that one of your teammates will be knocked down, and mobs he was holding will turn on you. You will have to dodge sideways/bacwards bringing new enemies Into the fight, while only one of your teammates is actually dealing with what you already had, cause second is reviving third. That’s how most of clown fiesta leading to wipe starts when I’m playing Kruber. I may dodge on backstab when pack is almost done.
Same arguments refers to infiltrating behind hordes in terms of specials, and in terms that closest rats will turn on you, just like you lumbafoot.

Bosses. Well every class hitting them from behind, mostly cause person tanking it will run/dodge away from where his teammates are. And I was actually saying about killing on crit, backstabbing bosses has no tie with it. BTW if u can manage to dodge dance rat ogre while performing heavies in his head, it will be almost same damage, as from behind. Infiltrate don’t takes advantage of backstab increased damage as I get it on dummy.

So far, hitting some heads from behind is quite harder than into face. Cause target moving depending not on yours position, but on someone’s else.

I don’t feel like its really an advantage to get behind something, but risk at almost same damage. If you wanna slay target instantly, you have to perform fast light attacks to make crit chance higher. If you wanna increased damage, it’s not worth it. Increased dmg from back in my opinion good for shade only when facing bosses so you don’t loose dmg from headshots, replacing it with backstab.

I understand why you disagree. I’m someone with plenty of hours play time who rates these classes:

On how easily they can carry via versatility. You could carry on RV, but you’d have a much harder time than all of these classes, even though he has the anti-armour weapons that can also deal with hordes. He doesn’t have one-shot mechanics and doesn’t have an ultimate on a short cooldown that does a ridiculous amount of damage.

My main focus with what I’ve said in this thread should all be drawn to Shade’s cooldown build, as that’s what I’m refering to, and by extension other builds which have similar guaranteed crit or one-shot/chunk mechanics. Having that much damage at your disposal is not necessary, as I’ve pointed out with the RV example. Having these mechanics in-game is great and makes things interesting, but when they’re on such a short cooldown because of builds or talents, it makes the game easier than is necessary for certain careers.

Without a CDR build Shade is an Elite killer with a bit of extra Boss damage. With the build she can just destroy every Elite. This can be put down to cooldowns and recent buffs to ARP on her weapons.

(CDR builds)

well, i can’t agree with you because a huge part of my playstyle is manuevering behind elites or tough infantry to get fast kills, especially when they’re cornering a teammate and u really need to eliminate them fast before they die. let’s agree to disagree, we have different playstyles. in the end, if we’re both effective, that’s what really matters.

i think my main issue with your argument, is that the shade is a melee based class. she has to run up to things to kill them, which is risky and takes time. there are plenty of other threads talking about the dominance of ranged classes which apparently when played ‘the other players don’t even get to melee’. when you throw the shade into the mix with these so called range dominant classes, what happens? while she removes a chaos warrior from the mix, everything else around it should be dead from the range spam, if they’re really that efficient. for her to ‘destroy every elite’, it means the entire party would be doing almost nothing.

i do agree tho, that certain classes are harder to carry. but rv isn’t one of them (rv + shotgun is one of the strongest builds out there dps wise) he’ll mow down elites. he has tricks to handle chaoswarriors (smoke bomb and hack away being invisible, or potion spec build) i’m not a good rv player, but i’ve seen the good rv players play, it’s incredible.

i’ve not seen a good WHC carry tho. think that’s a class that needs big love from fatshark.

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I’ve seen it happen, funnily enough he was using brace of pistols and rapier. Very high on the boss damage removed hordes and elites like it was nothing. But this is a single case that could be done as BH probably easier. I agree he needa something to make him a little bit more exciting other than playing tag.

Yeah, if other threads were up about the ranged careers I mentioned in that carry thread, I’d be giving my opinion on their one-shot or crit mechanics too.

You’re right that Shade is a risk vs reward melee career. My argument to that would be that being able to go invisible more often and being able to delete an Elite each time you do go invisible takes away a lot of that risk.

The cleave her weapons just grants too much CDR. Sword, 2H Sword and Dual Swords, seem to still rely on that for the Elite killing, but her other weapons do not. Without the CDR build, as I’ve said, you’re still able to deal with Elites better than most melee careers. The CDR puts it on overdrive because of the nature of her ult.

(CDR builds)

This thread is getting ridiculous. The the number of things just repeated over and over.

Kitten’s profile statement: “Promoting ideas that will hopefully lead the to game having a high skill cap and be fun at the same time.”

That statement makes it sound like fun is secondary. Not everyone wants this game turned into a masochist wasteland.

I swear you push harder than a lobbyist in Washington.

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He will be done if it is just him left playing with bots that are programmed in his image.

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LOL, I think you might be right.

don’t see your point. in CDR builds, in order to generate ult, you have to put yourself in risky melee. you’re not just sitting back waiting for the ult to generate. if anything, it’s even MORE risky because you need to constantly be in melee to keep that ult loop working, which actually works really well for pushing her uptime. if you stay invis, you take away the risk, but you’re not doing damage.

and no, without the cdr build, you’re gonna fall back on normal attacks, you’re gonna struggle on maulers with chaos warriors and berserkers. don’t see how her melee damage output is going to surpass, say, a slayer, if you take away her CD.

You have ranged and more Boss damage. You can play Swiftslaying, Shadowhunter or Veilwalker and do just fine because of the Arp her weapons now have. If Spear and 2H Sword get added Arp, even more so. I don’t see why you would struggle any more than other careers in melee against those Elites.

If you don’t like a masochist wasteland, why don’t step down a level, or even go down to recruit.

If legend is the hardest this game can give us, it should be a pain!

To say, I like the game to be fun, and mean “I will nuke them all, with little effort, on the hardest setting” that is simply wrong.

Why ?

Cause after a short time people will have no challenge left and be boored of the braindead slaughter of rats.

To keep players playing, a game must have be hard so that players can constantly evolve to better players.

To further demonstrate this,
I give you a legend level with one rat! That is easy, but will it be fun?

So you say “That is not what I mean, I will it to be more of a challenge”

So we adjust legend so that most players have a succes ratio of 1 of 4. Thoose who will continue to play this game will soon regard this as hard as legend with one rat. It will soon be trivial, and when something become trivial, we stop to play.

So legend is end game, and must be now and forever a challenge!

How do you go about that, though? How can you make Legend a reasonable challenge for players with hundreds of hours in the game and optimized equipment, playing the “meta”? Only realy way I see right now is making the game unfeasable and load it even more with rng. No thanks.

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V1 Cataclysm felt like a bigger challenge. Mobs hit harder and you couldnt one shot almost anything.

Nerf meta!

A BH with 17k xbow damage without any ult, what did they think ?

hundreds of hours and master a game ?, this is the desire of causal players. I have respect for that, but they can play champ. Why not leave legend for thoose who want a “real challenge”.

If you say 200is hours is what is needed to master a game,my son would spit you in the face, simply stating xxx you.

I simply say: can we please have a level that starts at high skill demand, and a game that allows al classes to function in this level.

If that is to hard, then people can play champ.

Ah, I see, mindless elitism and a condescending attitude, that’s where you’re coming from.

First of all, there will always be a meta. Once you nerf the meta, something new will become the meta. As soon as numbers are involved in a game, things will inevitably be better than others.

Nerfing will do nothing but make things arbitrarily difficult. The game is random enough as it is with very inconsistent AI-director behaviour. The difficulty right now doesn’t stem from challenge as much as from randomness. I am fine with that to a certain degree, but gimping carreers will do jack and only make the game more tedious. More challenge can only come through new content, new approaches to the gameplay and new enemies.

And to folks saying VT1 cata was harder than Legend… yeah, no, it really wasn’t. Just look at some videos of people playing true solo runs and count the number of enemies. The game’s are hardly comparable, anyway, they have a completely different flow and approach when it comes how the challenge is presented.

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