It needs to go. Not even a nerf.
However, if FS wants to keep it this way, they need to buff its block wielding speed. For its mobility features, it’s wielding speed, despite having the highest wielding speed as a psyker, feels off.
Stealth breaks this game and zealot can have 25% base crit chance with the knife, and +30% as a Lacerate blade, and another 25% with the keystone. Couple it with invocation of death and every single enemy retargets someone else, literally unlosable game.
Both DS and combat blade need to go. They don’t belong in this game.
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I don’t care. Overwhelming majority of stealth players couldn’t break the game if it was on a disk made of glass.
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Btw, it’s a misconception that it wasn’t OP on psyker. Vet and zealot don’t inherently make better use of it, they’re just more used to meleeing. I’m not gonna sugarcoat it, you could give the average psyker a weapon that oneshots every enemy in the game with quick lights and they’d probably call it bad and weak because they suck at meleeing, and if you gave the wep to other classes and see them destroy the game with it their reaction would be “it’s the class that makes it strong, not the weapon itself” (which is the exact argument used for dueling swords)
Facts: Psyker reaches the highest finesse (crit and weakspot) damage values for melee in the game, and quite easily at that. One mechanic is just a stacking buff for killing enemies that has like 90% uptime in a mission, and the other is a straight up huge activatable damage buff with 20% critrate and anothr 30% weakspot damage on it, scriers gaze. He also has the highest flat damage modifier on top of this via those, 15%/25% and up to 50% respectively. These also give him 40% movespeed. On top of that, every elite they kill puts 3 burn stacks on every surrounding enemy, which is quite rapidly with each stab killing an elite, and which will burn away with 100% rending
It’s insane how blatantly OP psykers can be but gets away with it because the average player is busy drooling all over their shirt while holding down smite
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It feels monumentally better than the vet shovel in every way.
You get all of the damage against carapace with a charged attack and none of the drawback from having to change configuration.
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I have a proposition. You uninstall the game you ask a refund and finally all you biggest problems in your life are gone and for us too. Problem solved.
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You break this game with your negativity with your lack of fun. We don’t care about your opinion.
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Meanwhile the knife has been broken since launch and has only ever been buffed as far as I can recall. Psyker can still kill everything with 0 skill using shock and flame staffs.
To be clear, the Dueling Sword is OP, but it is not alone. Darktide is terribly balanced.
The biggest problem is the difference between a pug team and a pre built. All the DS of the world aren’t enough for the PUG team and the pre team are sleeping about the difficulty. This is all…
idk man the stab special completely overshadows infinite blocking stamina on psyker - the only thing it has over other classes. it is better on vet and zealot with easier access to even more absurd finesse multipliers but it doesnt mean its not psyker’s best melee weapon also
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Vet has has a 30% weakspot mod and a 25% finesse mod if he goes that deep into the wep spec tree
DD alone gives 38% weakspot and 30% crit (and 15% flat damage) with near 100% uptime. If you go for the slightly more volatile 25 stack cap it gives up to 63% weakspot and 50% crit damage although it wont be capped at 25 as often (but it’s pretty easy to stack it up whenever enemies are around)
Scriers gaze gives 20% crit and up to 40% damage and up to 30% finesse damage
And again, looking at the full picture: Psyker killing 2 elites = 1 shredder grenade thrown.
I just don’t think it’s true to say the other classes have access to better. The numbers don’t lie. Duelist is slightly comparable (50% weakspot and crit) but also dodge trigger can suck when people go hard on CC
The real deciding difference is that vet and zealot have lots of crutches that lower the skill floor of meleeing like gold toughness and charge spam and until death and general tankiness, so they actually melee. Psyker meleeing does take a bit more skill, and Psykers generally don’t bother as a result. Defensively the stab special is pretty much the single best tool you could have too though so it’s not really THAT hard lol
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yeah you’re only omitting the fact that all of this requires using a non-meta loadout completely dropping most of the soulblaze(about as broken as everything else tied to psyker) stacking potential. using it as “i dont feel like taking melee dmg rn” button and deleting everything else with fire is simply more efficient
vet and zealot straight up being able to eat (multiple) overheads dont make this off-meta pick any more popular either. if you’re able to efficiently use scrier’s movement boost paired with anything quickdraw to keep the stacks rolling… you dont really need DS
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I did mention it in the original post and edited that before you wrote this one, so no, I wasn’t omitting the fact that psyker can still take perilous combustion and it scales hard with the duel sword because oneshotting every elite = mondo soulblaze stacks with uncanny strike at 5 going out.
It’s not mutually exclusive, in fact it’s the literal sole best weapon to use with it lol. Oneshots all elites for guaranteed combustions and 100% uncanny for the fire.
Crit builds also synergize hard with infernus staff if you wanna go that route because of empathetic evasion
Yeah as I said, they have crutches Psyker doesn’t have. It’s still the strongest on Psyker
as for “you don’t need it”, nobody needs it. It’s busted OP and kills the fun of the game. It’s just definitely most OP on psyker. He wipes out the most elites in the same timespans with it.
It’s just that Psyker is harder to play melee, and Psyker players overwhelmingly just hold down one ranged attack button, so it’s quite overlooked. Harder is relative though, dodging elites and not taking damage with the highest mobility wep in the game isn’t actually hard, try playing the Ogryn weps with 2 dodges with negative dodge distance and -50% sprint speed
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what is fun about holding m1 the entire game
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It’s not even close and you know it. Vets also have access to several more passives that massively skew this.
and also this
Vets can oneshot crushers with zero setup. You can’t argue “b-b-but psykers!!!” when your argument for absurd OP-ness requires stacking either a keystone or giving up your ability for a specific purpose. Yes, DD + SG are both very powerful, but they require stacking to set up conditions for a one shot breakpoint, when one of the other classes doesn’t. The only thing you need is a single crit.
Here’s the build.
The fact that this exists in its current state just isn’t even comparable to what you can do after stacking several buffs on a different class. It is by far the least amount of effort to oneshot, and by far the most problematic. You don’t even need to “go that deep into the wep spec tree”. All of this on top of how inherently tanky the class is (massive toughness, massive TDR, chip damage immunity through gold toughness etc.) . All for zero effort. It is absurd. Absolutely diabolical lack of balance.
Anyway, outside of Vets existing in their current state alongside the subject of the thread, the weapon itself needs a serious balance pass. That much we should all be able to agree on.
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Neither of those add up to the same damage bonus psyker can get (which I literally just listed) and rending doesn’t matter with uncanny strike. I’m not sure what your point is. I’m just saying Psyker hits the same oneshot crusher breakpoints, arguably more easily because the buffs are higher uptime than precog. Anyone pretending that the weapon is somehow gimped in Psykers hands and should only be nerfed on Vet and Zealot is beyond dishonest.
PS: You can do what your vid does on psyker without having to dodge first. And you get to have uncanny strike on your wep too.
PPS: Dodging first isn’t “zero setup”. If that counts as zero setup, then so does having maxed DD which as I said has 90%+ uptime at max stacks (and the rest of the 10% at 13-14 stacks) and SG which stays on for a long time and has a low cooldown.
Edit: I just tested it and non-maxed DD + uncanny alone is enough to hit the oneshot breakpoint btw
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Stop being disingenuous.
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You don’t need to stack anything on Vet. You’re talking about OP oneshots and whatnot. Vet requires nothing. You don’t need to max your DD stacks, you don’t need to activate your ability and smack the target or let the finesse bonus tick up first. The one shots are available from the getgo through the class talents + thrust. Precog isn’t used in this setup at all. You look at a crusher’s head, you hold left click. That’s it.
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The dodge is there to proc riposte + reciprocity so I don’t have to spend any longer on that goofy setup to increase my chance of a crit in a 4 second clip.
The weapon itself is problematic and needs nerfs, as I said.
Several times in this thread you talk about “oh but look what the psyker damage ceiling is”, which when talking breakpoints, doesn’t matter. A one shot is a one shot, which vets can just have. That’s the point I was making, and you know that.
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There’s also people who want to do solo havoc 40. They want to use stealth/mobility. Let them.
I do think enemies should reaggro players when leaving stealth if they’re closer and/or even have an animation to look around for the target.
I actually hate being stealth hammer zealot sometimes when I stealth, charge my hammer, try get thrust stacks, and have the monster/bulwark/etc. start running away to engage another player.
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No, you stop being disingenous. I’m testing right now and Psyker can literally hit the non crit crusher oneshot breakpoint with SG. You’re out of your mind to say Vet does more damage with it despite the numbers and the fact he needs a crit to do it.
“Not needing to stack anything” doesn’t mean anything. When you play psyker with DD, it’s functionally a permanent buff at 13+ stacks. You’re trying to find inconvenience where there is none. These 13+ stacks alone match Veterans damage. Then you still have SG on top of it, aswell as better offensive talents like Perilous Combustion.
You are dishonest, as is anyone arguing Psyker is making worse use of the sword. Psyker is less tanky and has no shout. That’s the sole difference.
PS: A oneshot is a oneshot, but the opportunity cost of not having uncanny strikes is massive
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So… Multiple highlighted target RNG kills + at least 5 hits otherwise to fully stack uncanny? and not just, you know, hold m1? Your first rebuttal was “look what I can do with some effort for a setup vs your zero setup”.
We’re talking about oneshots in a vacuum. You mentioned about how you don’t see other classes having it better. The fact of the matter is that with only class talents, a weapon perk and a blessing, you can one shot crushers with one singular input. You don’t have to give up your class ability. You don’t have to pick a specific keystone. Several times you bring up the buff numbers you can get on Psyker when using that specific setup, as @morfin also highlighted.
I am not being dishonest, I was simply highlighting how Vets especially have very easy access to the same one shot breakpoints, which you’d know if you read my original response without preconceived notions. You stated in this thread
I just don’t think it’s true to say the other classes have access to better
I am arguing that it is true that at least one of them does.
I am purely highlighting how you seem to be specifically against Psykers for whatever reason. Not once did I disagree that melee psyker can be obscenely powerful. You’re attempting to equate something that requires a setup to something that objectively doesn’t, which I don’t think is a fair argument. We’re talking absolute minimum effort. Believe what you want, I don’t care, I’m just pointing it out.
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