You forgot to mention that the recent roll-back of the Invocation of Death nerf, allows you to get your ability cooldown in few seconds. I start to think zealot is being just “slightly” favoured by people with influence at Fatshark.
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Shroudfield, they nerfed the wrong point. Nerfing by 1 second master-crafter was a bad move. It makes this talent not worth to invest one point. And they did not touch shroudfield too strong bonuses.
Unjustified if you ask me… It is again too strong. The only one that needed a buff is Martyr’s purpose. I think this one is totally useless and something should be done for it. And not a buff, something totally different cause the talent is badly designed.
But I understand that you need, AND a weapon specifically build for that AND the use of an ability.
This is the same than what you have on veteran to one shot crushers, however, with ranged weapons you don’t take any risk.
Also, taking thrust means slower combat style. Perso, I use riposte + agile.
And you need a 80% damage and 80% penetration weapon. And you need also +10% weakspot hits (so you remove the +5% critic chances), tested also.
So let’s summarize, you can do it with faithful and with only a weapon that has thrust + +25% carapace and +10% weakspot hits damages. Sounds a lot more specialized than just:
Cause when you go for THIS weapon, you won’t one shot other ogryns (unyielding). Tested it also.
So, you don’t one shot everything… even if you would instantly refresh ability to infinite use… something that don’t happens (even if the revert was unjustified and too strong, something I fully agree).
At contrary, you have a veteran that can one shot everything with its revolver with a configuration too strong, unnerfed for 6 months and that close to everybody use (hand cannon + surgical strike). And here it is everything, crushers and ogryns.
So, you have on one side a totally specialized weapon designed to one shot one enemy against a weapon that can delete every non monster enemy.
The first needs you to take the risk to go to melee with the crusher (and when they are 8 this can be dangerous) the other just need you to shot at distance, so in security.
Both need the ability to one shot.
So, where I agree is that the reverted nerf for invocation of death was unjustified. But I tend to think that Fatshark has fired the guy in charge of game balance… cause now they don’t care of it, at all.
In the new balance (that is totally unbalanced if you ask me) the duelling swords are not too strong. They are perfectly balanced.
You don’t need +10% weakspot dmg. I run +25% carapace +25% unyielding. And yes, you need to get close, but with Agile that’s not an issue.
It’s funny how they nerf Shroudfield from 6 to 5 sec, meanwhile Infiltrate is 8 sec with 2 charges.
You need it with fury of the faithful
I have not tested with shroudfield… but this ability is too strong, and they nerfed something undeeded (6s to 5s) and have not balanced what was needed.
This does not change anything. As I said in the past for dagger (EXACTLY same problem), when a weapon become too powerful with only one build, this is not the weapon you should nerf, but the build.
(I cannot test more, I have run out of ordos and I have no desire to play darktide…)
Not funny…this is dumb. I won’t spend one point to get +2s seconds. So shroudfield has lot a lot of its utility, and I end with 95% of my builds with fury the faithful. Before there was other builds, now, I don’t see outside of the assassination build (so backstabbing in chain) why I should take shroudfield.
An other example of a bad choice that removed gameplays.
As a conclusion, I think you have understood my point of view. And more I have written, more I feel that the game is less and less interesting for me. That’s why I will stop to contribute to this discussion cause soon I will end uninstalling Darktide when I think to all these things not balanced cause too strong (always top damages in scroreboards), things nerfed without reason (master-crafter shroudfield is a good example), things great and removed (vanguard), gameplays killed (veteran with their keystones)…
As I have always said, you should never force you to play a game. I am close to that.
They should also kill the zealot for me… it would give me a good reason to definitively turn the page of dartktide as it is the only thing interesting for me that remains in the game.
I will summarize my position.
in the actual balance (PG, revolver, void strike), the duelling swords are perfectly balanced. As I said, this is considering all other too strong things. If the too strong things were nerfed, then yes duelling sword would also need a nerf.
Let’s add that they have picked all wrong choices… they nerfed master-crafter shroudfield (totally uneeded) and reverted the nerf for invocation of death (stupid idea). And still we have the worst CDR node of all classes untouched (martyr’s purpose). And still, shroudfield, that cause so many problems, is left too strong…
As I said earlier, I begin to think that the guy in charge of the balance has been fired, or has left the sinking ship.
Infiltrate doesn’t give you so big bonus like Shroudfield does.
True… and that’s why the nerf should have impacted shroudfield, and not master-crafted
I don’t think Shroudfield bonus is so overbearing, it counts for only one attack. It’s just that there is a fundamental difference between the purpose Shroudfield and Infiltration.
And still, you see a lot of threads, like this one, saying that combat blades are too strong, duelling sword too strong etc. The culprit? shroudfield all the time.
Also, they had the genius idea to revert the change of invocation of death. This means that, when you can only use infiltration two times and then have a good cooldown, with shroudfield, you can spam the ability if you keep chaining critics / backstabs (something easy enough with right setup).
When you get a small bonus with infiltrate (if you pick the nodes that give them), you get a massive damage bonus with shroudfield.
So shroudfield = mass damage bonus, can be spammed, lasts 3 seconds
Infiltrate: no bonus except if you invest in several other nodes (i don’t count the +25% move bonus here), lasts 8 seconds, 2 times at max, big cooldown if picked 2 charges
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Just no, if you can spam Shroudfield blame it in the cdr talents.
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TBH it was not balanced on a psyker either. It was their strongest melee weapon by far.
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I’ve thought this since the time when the Duelling Sword could only be used by the psyker, but its base damage is too high and needs to be reduced. especially now that the zealot can use it, balance adjustments are a must.
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You have 2 CDR nodes that can apply to shroudfield… pious cut-throat and invocation of death.
This lead to a really easy refresh of the ability.
And I repeat, threads like that are repeatedly created. And the culprit is always shroudfield.
So, they have a lot of solutions… put a bigger cooldown on shroudfield, nerf damages, nerf CDR etc.
But don’t worry… they will surely buff everything.
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I’d rather have useful bonus like Shroudfield than being able to be a hindrance for 8-16 seconds tbh. There are hardly any situation where you’d want to be in stealth that long.
With the mk 2 you can just special cancel the heavy so you always get access to the poke, but there’s almost no reason to run the mk 2 since the H2 gets really bad cleave. Mk5 is OP also purely because of the added mobility compared to the mk 2 and 4 while its heavies still get decent damage
I’m not getting it.
Slightly worse Mobility than Knife, slightly worse horde-clear than knife, better elite control. Yeah, it can poke a Crusher with Carapace thrush and ult. Meh. Scryer psyker was already in a comfortable 2 shot range without Thrush and +Carapace shenanigans.
Don’t see it really as much else than a mobility tool + Elite stabber.
With the exception of the Mk 2 H1 damage profile and H1/H2 on Mk 4 vs heavy armour , there is very little “OP” about the duellists sword. Overall dps is fairly limited by lack of proper cleave, and that shows on scoreboards. You trade that for extra mobility. Mk 5 damage vs heavy armour is pretty tame, especially when compared to the other 2 marks. The extra mobility of MK 5 can be equally a benefit and a hindrance from my experience.
Rapier on Zealot (and Veteran) is wrong, I agree. It was a weapon suited (for style and power) around the Pysker… now, if they’re going to nerf it, Rapier will be balanced for Zealots but bad for Psykers
Plasma and Revolver are perfectly fine, specially after the ghost nerf. They’re are in the same tier of Infantry Autoguns, Recon Lasguns, Boltgun, Boltpistol, Laspistols. Every single weapon in this tier have pro and cons when compared with Plasma or Revolver (and of course they have pro and cons each other as well)
Why?
Like the revolver is too strong on veteran and never nerfed, I don’t see why they should nerf it cause of zealot.
At worse, they should nerf too strong zealot talents… but then they would have to do the same for veteran.
Well, let’s put PG on side… but revolver is fine? if the tool that can one shot EVERY enemy on a veteran is fine then duelling sword must also be fine…
If duelling sword on zealot with shroudfield and thrust + perks +25% carapace and +25% unyielding (all of this is required) one shot everything while a simple revolver on veteran with exec stance with surgical + hand cannon with any perk can do the same but is balanced, I don’t see why they should nerf duelling sword. Especially if you consider that with the revolver you can one shot without any risk, while you take risks with a duelling sword.
Why are you losers still talking about thrust?
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Do you mean why I think Rapier on Veterans and Psykers is wrong… or why I think it’s going to be nerfed?
Imo because Veteran + Revolver is still balanced. Sure, top top meta, on the edge, but still. I admit I still have to fully explore Zealot + Rapier, but it feels like overshadows some others weapons’ niches… and, personal tastes, of course, style side preferred it as Psyker exclusive