The thunderhammer is bad

I know what I have said about the weapon in the past and how I have defended it, even in the face of the Thrust fix. However having done a lot of testing on various weapons I am now of a different persuasion after doing direct 1:1 comparisons especially when compared to ranged weapons. The zealot’s high strength armor busting power weapon should NOT be inferior to a BOLTER in TTK against Crushers or any other elite or specialist. This weapon should be the absolute KING of elite sniping. Its fine that its weakness is poor mobility and low horde clear. But given the risks involved in using it, and given the new (very desirably) reality of crusher and mauler/rager patrols. This weapon needs to have the juice.

My data on real, in game, TTK against spawned in groups of enemies is as follows. TTK is intended to be with no damage taken, but there are a few exceptions and they are noted where they are relevant.

My discussion and rant on the subject, in detail, including footage of the testing and the hammer tests are included in the following videos:

Simply put the TTK for an Ironhelm or a Crucis against Crushers, Maulers or any other elite/specialist should exceed or, at a minimum, match the Bolter. If that cannot be achieved due to swing speeds and the realities of combat that’s fine. Obviously the limit is however fast one could hypothetically oneshot 4 crushers in ideal circumstances. You can’t do more than 100% damage after all. But if that’s as “good” as we can get, then lets do that.

IF crushers and other melee elites are “too easy” to kill, then we need to make them more threatening by increasing their attack and movement speed. Not by making them tankier bulletsponges against weapons that should one or two shot them.

Thanks.

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Just hypothetically…

Is that it should be better because lore, or should be better because… it’s bad at other stuff?

Both. The correct way to balance danktide weapons is:

  1. Relaxed weapon balance.
  • some things are better than others but everything has a place. Focus on fun.
  • things that are better should be 40K strong weapons. There will always be better or worse. Make 40K strong the better options.
  1. Nothing so OP that it completely invalidates any difficulty or other player’s participation
  2. Space for personal showcases of skill
  3. Honors the lore, but doesn’t have to exactly match it

So the answer is both. The hammer in lore and tabletop crunch is way better at killing T6 Sv4+ W3 enemies than a bolter ever is. AND it also is its obvious niche in Darktide the video game. So it should probably actually satisfy that niche. The 2H thunder hammer should not be underperforming a 1H combat axe or, for that matter, a 1h chain axe with a little Thrust or Brittleness blessing action.

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I agree with not making “balance” the top priority. Balance does not equate or translate into fun. Game are played to be fun.
( lol if you want to play a balanced game, go play chess or something. )
Currently though there are certainly alot of “unfun” AND “unbalanced” weapons like the Shield for Ogryn. Not sure about the (crusis) thunderhammer as I’ve played with it and it was fun for a bit, really felt like it was the right weapon for single targets but the iron helm however was…pretty lacking in all departments.

Both weapons have pretty much the same output and breakpoints at the high end. Both of them are in desperate need of damage buffs to elites and specials and carapace especially.

Not gonna lie I kinda despise the thammer for deleting bosses so quick that the I don’t even get to fight…

I would trade a massive nerf against bosses for it to be better against maulers :grinning:

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meh there’s deserved cheese on bosses like the thunderhammer, and then there’s bolter or even just punching a spawn in the face repeatedly as Ogryn after hitting it with a dash (pro slab tip). A good 60% of pub zealots get vored right after doing it anyway which is funny.

And thunderhammer is extremely low in usability, kudos to whoever can stand it. Even as a Brunt club enthusiast I find them painful. I really wonder what another variation of hammer would even do. I greatly prefer Ironhelm for its moveset, even if it bonks smaller special hits. Its just more practical to get 5 Slaughterer stacks, 5 Rising Conviction and Headtaker stacks and start killing ragers with just H2 and H3 while controlling them. Which is not zap bonking at all. I do hit reapers and bulwarks with that.

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Its actually, IMO, in a good place right now against bosses. It is not able to delete them without 5ish good charged swings. It was a real problem back in thrustbug days when it could absolutely annihilate them in like 2 swings. I’d like to see its monstrosity damage left alone or maybe lightly increased, now that you mention it, and see its damage for special buffed against everything else.

Yeah, I always feel it’s only really good for boss fights. For killing elites it’s just not that good.

It’s significantly harder to hit on the right target than other weapons in a chaotic situation, and really bad at killing hordes, also has really bad dodge, but when killing elites it’s not much faster. The effectiveness doesn’t feel right for all the costs. I found combat axe is a lot more comfortable and safe in the same situation.

And one reason I think Thunderhammer is bad is that you will have a lot lower total damage compared to other weapons such as combat axe and heavy swords. Like I can do 500K damage when using those 2 weapons, but 300k is already a good number for Thunderhammer.

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