DT Headphone recommendations? surround sound help lol

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
21

What part of I have done this for 12 years and have been down every rabbit hole you have been down do you not understand? Your talking to me like Im a idiot when I probably know the same if not more about the subject then you.

Since I guess you cant understand my point when I write it, here is a picture. Maybe you perceive the sound as off by a few degrees compared to what perfectly implemented HRTF would tell. But your actual limits in accuracy would make both of these more or less overlap. So how much is this actually going to effect your gameplay?

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And this is considering HRTF, virtual 7.1 surround sound is even less impactful and usually just makes stuff sound a bit worse for no gain. Pressing that 7.1 surround sound button on the GSX 1000 does practically nothing except add a bunch of pointless audio effects, I literally have one and yes its setup correctly Im not a monkey. Please just try listening to any music with that 7.1 turned on lol.

No not really but the jump from 48 to 88 is noticeable enough to be worth it most of the time and its funny that a $100 amp doesn’t support it. Its not really a USB limitation, they could have used USB C or superspeed connectors and easily supported it. I think on the new model of the GSX 1000 it is USB C but still only supports 16/48. But hey they made the microphone 16/48 as well so it might not sound as bad as I remember it anymore (old model was 16/16)

Sure Ill also tell them to add headphone jacks back to phones and tell people to stop buying gucci, and maybe stop taking 12987436123mega pixel photos. Its called a buzz word, doesn’t matter if it does anything as long as you staple on some fancy sounding words like “Dolby Atoms 7.1 perfect surround sound”. Its literally just a buzz word, do you think massive movie theaters can provide accurate surround sound for every seat in the room? Its nonsense, movies are just loud and have decent audio quality no one cares or notices if the positional audio is perfect, they just see a fancy badge and suddenly are willing to pay a extra $2 for their ticket. Then you take that same badge and staple it onto a headset and get even more money. Its literally just modern day snake oil, practically everything audio related that was invented after the 1960s is.

22

That’s a nice diagram, where’s it from?
Here’s a pic of mine:

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Because you seem to be unclear and unable (unwilling?) to describe things accurately, and making bold claims like “gsx 100 hard to setup” or generic statements.
Then you double down with:

Why the hell would I? It literally has buttons to toggle to 2.0 unprocessed sound for music or external bypas, they’re pre-configured this way. Here’s the PDF for GSX 100 v2, and yes the older v1 had comm device bit-rate limitation (not great but not bad either).
When you say these things it makes you sound clueless or that you’re lashing out. I keep asking you to clarify thing, not only don’t you, but you add to the confusion and toss some word salad my way. “win update broke my surround” Still waiting for clarification, that’s like a user saying “I got an error message and clicked OK”. OK, what am I supposed to do with that information?

Another gem:

So, multiple fixed speakers but listener’s position can vary wildly. OFC it doesn’t, but I do try to get there first and pick a central seat. to maybe help
You’re comparing a fixed position listener at their PC to the theatre multi-speaker with variable positions? A listener at a movie, at a fixed position , likely way off-center, watching a fixed scene moving only as it was filmed vs an interactive PC listener with a scene moving very quickly but the PC is at a fixed pos.
You’re comparing apples to orange traffic cones.
What’s the connection? What point are you trying to make here? It’s completely unrelated to the discussion at hand, except to insinuate more placebos.

Maybe in your head you know what you want to say, you sure ain’t saying it though or being clear, so I’m not sure what conclusion you expect me to come to after repeated attempts.

Gotcha, vacuum tubes and vinyl for that “warm” sound huh.

You sound like you went down every gopher hole over 12 years thinking they were rabbit holes, then sad you didn’t find any rabbits so therefore no rabbits exist.

P.S. Pics are fun!
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23

Did I say that? I didnt say its hard to setup, just that you need to enable the buttons in windows settings and it would be pretty funny if you didnt know that. Not that it really matters, I mostly just used it as a point to complain more about the pretty garbage GSX 1000

I didnt realize 16/16 was considered not bad considering that’s like audio cassette quality. I would call that pretty dam bad.

I know. I own one. I’m not illiterate I read the manual. My point is that it doesnt actually improve spatial audio perception in any real noticeable way and only degrades audio quality. All it does it add a bunch of filters that make things sound more “deep”. Its just a sound effect it doesn’t actually help you much with positioning stuff, HRTF on the other hand actually uses real math and psychophysical science to help make positional audio a bit more accurate. I don’t like either, I prefer my audio to not be messed with by questionable digital effects.

If you like the sound of virtual 7.1 then go ahead, but don’t pretend as if it effects your ability to locate things through sounds in any real way.

The fact that most of these effects and technology was developed for movies. Hmm if they should suck so much for games why do you use them for gaming?

Dolby 7.1 surround was developed for movie theaters, they just slapped it onto headphones because it makes things sound more “theatric”. Its just slightly complex audio filter, still doesn’t really help with positional audio.

Yes. Because the GSX 1000 used micro usb b instead of superspeed micro usb b that would easily be able to support both. Not sure how this helps your case at all.

Well no, not exactly. But it is a fact that many recording studios still use vacume tube DACs because they are generally better. Sure the difference is practically impossible to tell anymore.

But I was mostly talking in regards to speaker and general playback technology, You can get a pair of headphones and speakers from the 60s or early 70s and get audio quality the same or better then today.

Obviously digital audio is fine. Im not saying digital audio is bad, hence why I said most, that most means things like virtual 7.1 and premade equalizer options and whatever else. They are almost all just pointless and only serve to distort audio more. If you like that distortion then go ahead and enjoy I dont really care, I prefer as little distortion as possible.

Ill just try to close out here because this isnt getting anywhere.

Virtual 7.1 surround filters don’t actually help you with positional audio in any real way. They are just audio filters made to make things sound more deep or full or whatever buzzword you want to use. They still just put sound into your two ear holes from two speakers, its not the same as HRTF. HRTF actually has some science behind it and does work to some extent, but I find that it usually distorts audio in distracting ways so I usually just turn it off since the rather small benefits aren’t worth it.

If you like the sound of your GSX 1000 7.1 surround then go ahead and enjoy that. But its basically the same thing as a base boost or any of those premade EQ filters you can find for “gaming” or “classical music”. Can they sound good for some people and make things more enjoyable? Sure why not. But its not actually going to help you with positioning audio in any noticeable way so stop saying it will. That’s all.

24

Well there it is, you don’t like any additional processing does to the default neutral sound, as I theorized before.

Here’s a little Wired article that agrees with your opinion on not liking it.
Are Virtual Surround Gaming Headsets Worth It? | WIRED ( Iactualy did own a Tiamat real 7.1 they mention)
/thread
P.S. from sen gsx1k faq hint: there’s a word starting with H, google crap

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P.P.S. Old thread you may find more like you Sennheiser GSX 1000 / 1200 Impressions | Page 39 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

25

I will say one more thing.

Almost all 7.1 surround is the same as stereo but with post processing. It doesn’t actually give you any more information like actual in game HRTF does. Sure a 7.1 algorithm might use HRTF as part of it, but that isn’t actually getting more information from the game, information like vertical position and so on.

If its not in game HRTF then its not doing much other then maybe sounding better to you, at most muffling certain sounds and making others louder. So giving it as advice to improve spatial audio awareness is wrong.

26

Is built-in HRTF outputting to 2.0 better? OFC it is, there’s no middle man and as you said some info can be lost (vert). Which is also why I said it woulda been great (many times) if DT had the plug-in going on their end even back in VT2.

I’m tired so here are some parting gifts hint: 7 vs 2

Let’s see if you notice anything.

Tons of resources out there and yet…, I’m tired boss.
You win, I agree it’s not good for you, please stick to vanilla stereo 2.0 for all your stuff.

27

Yes essentially the only real bonus your getting by using post processing 7.1 with HRTF combined with in game 7.1. Is forward/backwards audio distinction. But your brain already sort of does that automatically, just using your eyes to see if something is infront of you or not. Plus since you are moving around the audio source’s position becomes more evident. If something is either to your front left or your back left, and you turn left. Then if it was to your back left it is now to your left, and if it was to your front left it is now to your front. If a audio source moves at all your brain does these calculations for you and you just know.

On paper it’s nice, in practice not really noticable. Maybe in very rare scenarios. Meh if you think that’s worth it then go ahead, but you are paying for it with worse audio quality that may muffle important sound effects. And I think that is more noticable.

28

I’m confused, I thought there was NO HRTF in the mix? So where is this HRTF now coming from? It’s just “audio filters” in the virtual 7.1 after all right? But only back/front, mono front+mono rear, so since it’s all trans fats and fillers…something?

Oh but there is positioning? But it doesn’t matter anyways because eyes.
And it doesn’t matter because worse quality that may muffle sounds and muffins come out dry or something, idk.

29

Look, I’m not sure what you find confusing so I’ll just break it down for you

In game HRTF: Has much more information and can mimic vertical and horizontal sound positions a bit better.

In game 7.1 (without HRTF) + virtual 7.1 with HRTF: Takes a standard 7.1 and then use HRTF to mimic the sound of having multiple speakers around your head. Notably not the same thing as in game HRTF that much more accurately models how in game sounds are played in your headphones. This mimics how it would sound to have multiple speakers around you, not how it would sound to be in the game. It does help slightly with forward/back positioning but that’s about it, do to the loss of information its not going to be as accurate. So your getting less accuracy for more distortion. Basically the awkward middle child that sounds worse while not being as accurate.

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As I have said since the first message here: Surround sound settings aren’t magic and won’t improve your audio locating abilities notably. That’s all. I have tested it myself hundreds of times. If you like the sound of it that’s up to you but it’s not giving you any noticeable benefits and may also come with downsides that make certain things harder to hear.

I use zero surround sound settings now yet I can always hear where enemies are extremely precisely, I constantly mark doors that enemies are about to come out of for my team and I am always the first to notice a trapper coming up behind the team.

Just to reiterate my credentials here:

  • Used the same Sennheiser surround sound hardware you use
  • Used logitec surround sound software
  • Used razer surround sound software
  • Used windows sonic software
  • Used dolby atmos software
  • All of the above for at least ~200 hours
  • Have owned 27 different headphones between different brands, most were “gaming”
  • 2000 hours competitive CSGO
  • 5000 hours warthunder (very positional sound reliant game)
  • 2000 hours music recording/editing (I even have a reaper license lol)
  • Another total 4000 hours between other FPS games

So if you could please stop claiming I am talking out of my ass that would be nice. I have tested all of this, I have played with all of this. I mean I have a total of 32,000 hours on steam it is statistically impossible that you are one of the 1000 people on earth who has more experience when it comes to gaming and audio then me.

Let me just say it one last time: The only difference you will ever really notice by turning on any post processing 7.1 sound effect is the audio filters. Are there edge cases? Sure, do those edge cases ever come up? Well maybe but in my 32,0000 hours of playing games and investing in overpriced headphones I cant think of a single time I heard anyone hyper precise with 7.1 and misheard something with stereo. So should you use virtual 7.1? If you like the sound sure but don’t pitch it as if it improves your ability to locate things. Maybe sometimes it might help you by some small percentage, but you are still paying for that with audio quality that will hurt you in other ways.

30

Yknow guys, I dont think this is helping @alyx117

Although Im enjoying learning as an audiophile myself.

2 Likes
31

lol yeah probably not.

32

I own 3 gaming headsets that I’ve used with Darktide and they all work pretty well for me:
Logitech G733
Logitech G Pro X 2
Hyper X Cloud III

The Logitech ones I got when they were heavily discounted, I won’t spend as much on a headset at their normal prices. If you want wired, the Logitech G Pro X SE version is on sale right now for $66 at Amazon. What I like about the Logitech headsets is I can download different sound profiles from G Hub for both the audio output and for improving microphone quality. I have not had any issues with Darktide using both and I can hear all the sound cues.

Hyper X Cloud III comes with a license for DTS X Unbound. It’s pretty good and comfortable to use with really long battery life. Also got it on sale during Prime Day. There’s also a wired version that’s cheaper.
The other thing I like about these headsets is that it’s easy to replace the ear pads if you want cushier ones with more comfortable covers that don’t make your ears sweat.

33

What’s this ? A new diagram!? HRTF in the diagram now? Where was it hiding all this time, I thought it was just “Filters”.

You mean the thing I said? That you apparently think now too? Wait…v7.1 w/ HRTF…there’s that H word again. I think you may have been hacked.

No that’s not all you’ve said, so don’t try to backpedal now and move the goalposts around:

  • Does nothing
  • No does something, but not enough
  • Maybe enough but quality bad, I never did that.
  • No HRTF, F your couch Eddie Murphy!
  • Only “filters”
  • Oh yeah there’s HRTF, I did that, cocaine is a helluva drug.
    etc. etc.
    And you threw a boatload of red herrings out there,“LOL Music bad!111 in v7.1” yeah no duh, hence the buttons and win settings).
    “hard to setup” 3 mins?
    “Windows broke my spatial !111”
    etc. Enough fish to feed a city.

In-game HRTF is tangential and moot as it’s not there, the topic has always been what options do you have with the output options.
You’re trying to swing back to that in another backpedaling attempt to cover your tracks.

Hell even your latest diagram is contradicting what you’ve previously said and again further down and glossing over calling stuff only “audio filters” and then again contradicting your diagram re:locate, the diagram that now has HRTF in it; was someone reading stuff overnight and this afternoon?

You’re singing a much different tune now because you realize you put your foot in your mouth and painted yourself in a corner.
You don’t need to take my word for it, just some of the links I already provided had tons of useful information.

You maintain you don’t like how it sounds, and it doesn’t give you any tangible benefits? That’s fine, this was never in dispute, I even linked articles and threads that agree with you, it’s not an uncommon stance; there’s no free lunch.
Here’s the Wired article closing para largely agreeing with you.

Summary

Of course, your ears are different from mine, which are different from your favorite hardware reviewer’s, so no one can tell you what sounds best to you. It depends heavily on how well your ear matches that specific HRTF algorithm, and how a given game’s sound interacts with it. I would merely caution against paying extra for a headset’s USB surround add-on, or paying extra for a headset just because it has the feature. Instead, grab whatever headphones fit your needs best. If they contain a virtual surround feature, feel free to try it out—but compare it with the software-based options out there too, along with the standard two-channel mix. That way, when you finally decide what to use, you’ll be confident it’s actually an improvement—and not an echoey mess propped up by marketing.

It’s not a magic spell, but don’t lie and obfuscate even further now to back up your opinion.

And again, don’t take my word on anything here, at all, I insist you don’t.
For anyone reading you can just peruse through some of the linked stuff.
There are plenty of resources out there including many, many user reviews, articles, videos, discussions etc. most of which precisely mention and focus on LOCATING.

This sums you up:
This sums you up.

I wonder what the next goalpost shift and backpedaling will lead to.

34

Of course. You have just been extremely immature this entire time but whatever. My entire argument hasn’t changed at all, I haven’t backpedaled on a single thing. When I say it does nothing I mean it doesn’t actually improve your ability to locate sounds in any noticeable way. That’s all I have ever said. That isn’t me personally that’s for everyone no one gains any noticeable benefit from virtual 7.1.

Everything I have ever said is consistent its not my fault you misinterpret me and assume I am an idiot. Of course some virtual 7.1s do something, they simulate 7.1. Does that maybe in some tiny edge case help you in some ways? Maybe, have I ever said that is impossible? no.

Here you go please re read this and tell me where I have contradicted myself or back pedaled. The most I have done is elaborate that “does nothing” means “does effectively nothing and you will never notice it”

I don’t know why you insist on talking like I am a idiot or as if I don’t know what I am talking about, your looking for excuses to act superior or whatever, because you waste your time on this stuff and aren’t willing to accept that you have been duped by stupid companies. Notice how I pointed out its placebo in my first response, placebos work, people will convince themselves that it helps them because they turn on a 7.1 virtual surround option and then focus on sounds. That doesn’t mean that it actually does anything even if some reddit posts say it does. All it does is maybe sound good in some situations.

And for the record I haven’t needed to look up anything, I already know all of this. But you constantly pushing the point makes me need to write up more and more technical explanations as to why you are wrong. Maybe eventually one will stick.

HRTF without in game implementation is just a filter. Again I have played games with HRTF I know how it works, I know it can be useful but not that useful in general. 7.1 virtual surround with HRTF on the other hand does basically nothing, that’s what the diagram is showing, you already loose all of that information that in game HRTF has. Applying it afterwards is just simulating the speakers not the actual game.

“Its just a filter” as in its just a audio effect, sure that audio effect might be complex, its simulating 7 speakers around you and how they interact with your head sure. But that doesn’t extract more information from the game, its still just a 7.1 signal.

36

love the info i will for sure read all of it. In another universe im a basshead audiophile getting paid for having the best sound

1 Like
37

Hotel
Romeo
Tango
Foxtrot
Victor
7
1
?
Nah, filters.
Don’t think the backpedaling and doubling down on semantics, the glossing over and muddying has gone unnoticed as your stance on some things changed all of a sudden. Fascinating how today some of it coincides with some example posts I linked.

38

read above

39

So you’re just going to move the goalposts some more to your wording choices and semantics now? So close BTW, try re-reading what you write and diagrammed…

40

How have I moved the goal post? Its a audio effect because it doesn’t actually get any more information from the game. HRTF is basically a math formula it can be used for many things. The difference is between using HRTF to simulate how a enemy moving would sound to you, and using HRTF to simulate what 7.1 surround sound sounds like.

Simulating the sound of enemies VS simulating the sound of a speaker setup

41

I think I can see where a bit of your confusion of my points is. My arguments aren’t separate, I’m not back pedaling and moving the goal post, I am stacking my points on top of each other.

Virtual 7.1 doesnt really help you much in terms of locating sound because:
1: Its not that accurate and doesnt provide much more information
2: Your hearing isnt that percise anyways so you will not pick up on any minor improvements
3: It can distort sound and make some sound effects harder to pick up on

These aren’t separate points, these are all still arguing the same thing, one doesn’t become false or is given up on because I make another.