Drachenfels: Expectations?

I’m curious as to what people think about the next content drop being the free Drachenfels maps.

Should the maps be near the exact same? Or perhaps some alteration when it comes to a bit different path through the castle/dungeons/mountains? Keep some of the areas that are well known but introduce something new. Should the darkness aspect of Dungeons be less prevalent or perhaps include some other lightning options (braziers, more torches, ambient lighting). I’ve read that some people dislike Summoner’s Peak objectives. Should there be changes in this regard?

Do you believe that there should be multiple paths through the level to increase replay value? Or should it be a one path journey?

From the description of the latest news update it seems like there may be a possible boss fight of some sort. What enemy/faction should the 5 encounter?

Should any of the maps be faction exclusive or have clear areas that will always be skaven or norsca/beastmen (obviously beastmen exclusive wouldn’t work due to WoM).

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I’m really hoping for some changes to the maps - if not paths and/or new areas, then at least very different events and objectives. Something that makes them feel like actual updates to the maps, more than one-time puzzles and new book locations (yes, I’m referring to BtU here). I admit, Overkill might’ve spoiled me in that regard with their updates of Payday 1 maps, but the BtU maps quite soon felt like just “more of the same”. They’re still fun enough, but there’s nothing new in them.

The Summoner’s Peak objectives were indeed somewhat boring (and annoyingly difficult at times), so I’d like to see something different or at least heavily adjusted there. The general changes to the game would also make fighting on in the darkness with only one or two torches extremely annoying (and difficult), so I think some change (more torches, braziers, other steady light sources, less darkness, whatever) would be welcome.

Multiple paths are kind of whatever, though - I don’t think they bring in that much. Shifting paths are surprising the first couple of times, and then it’s just a matter of which path is it today; open areas are interesting to snoop around for a couple of runs but as we’ve seen in The Pit, they soon get reduced to the most efficient path.

For the possible Lord, we’re lacking one for the Beastmen but that’d be unlikely with them being gated behind DLC. I’ve nothing else to go on, though.

And as to limiting the maps to certain enemies… No, I don’t think there’s any particular reason to restrict the factions for the most part, but finding Beastmen in the depths of the Dungeons would be both nasty and at least somewhat out-of-place.

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The advantage the developers have here is in this statement: “As a part of Season 2, we are going to revisit the dreaded abandoned castle in Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide’s Drachenfels DLC. Something appears to have taken a liking to the castle and our heroes have to once again visit the castle to learn more about what’s happening in this all-new storyline.”

These maps being treated as a “revisit” and having all-new storyline could bring about more nostalgia about the environments from VT1 rather then the objectives/mechanics/pathing. Remember that VT1 traveling mechanic is different in VT2 when it came to stage coach vs portal stone.

Imo it would be interesting to extend either end of the map slightly so as to allow for more interesting layouts/environments. Drachenfels could start a bit further from the castle to have a more wooded/rocky landscape which would be perfect for beastmen to have a greater chance to show up as opposed to inside the castle itself (which imo should be a smaller chance of spawning). At the end perhaps have the canyon section open up to a vista where you could against have the beastmen be a bit more prolific or with some assets have a small norsca encampment after the canyon exit followed by the portal stone.

The level design itself could have different paths in which case new areas could be found and older ones brought back for nostalgia. I agree that multiple paths may not be necessary but if they included places of interest that might help in having a vested interest in the randomness. Perhaps have the entrances for either path have a pro or con. Multiple paths should only reconnect when you have objectives/tomes/grims. Open areas are also alright if the former isn’t in the picture. You would want either supply drops multiple patrol route possibilities to encourage the players to choose a path in a larger area.

I haven’t played much of Summoner’s Peak so I can’t really talk about it objectively. As for Dungeon, I dislike Hunger in the Dark’s pitch black portion. Blightreaper isn’t nearly as bad unless you spawn in game without a light source. Darkness itself as a mechanic is fine if used properly like if you had a corridor that is your main route, it’s lit pretty well with ambient lighting and a few torches but in between this corridor are open doorways that open out into darkness. To me this is more interesting because you could have enemies/specials come out of these shadowy hallways. Maybe you could have a tome or grim spawn location in which case you need to use the torch to go out into the darkness and hope nothing happens before getting back to the safer corridor.

As for a Lord I would love to see a Vampire make it into the game who would be at odds with both the heroes and the skaven/norsca (as I don’t see beastmen appearing). The Vampire while being difficult to fight can take damage from the normal enemies but it can also heal itself with certain abilities. Heck even have a rat ogre spawn in the fray where it will mostly prioritize the Vampire who in turn will generally shrug off it’s blows. Idk… maybe I’m being a bit too hopeful on that.

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I think it’s important to retain the same atmosphere, this is what made me like Catacombs, but I would love some secrets and even alternative routes to reach certain objectives. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Darker atmosphere can be gained in a number of ways without heavily relying on simply light. We already have a lot of people changing the game settings to deal with the dark portion of Hunger in the Dark or Blightreaper and if people are doing this that speaks to me about a problem that needs to be fixed/improved.

Drachenfels being a “living castle” could very well have a hand in impacting the environment itself. Perhaps have a sconce, brazier, or torch mysteriously come to light or have some shadows slide along a wall only to extinguish a torch. If these “events” happened randomly that could add a ton of atmosphere to such an environment.

edit: Sound design could also have a huge hand in creating an eerily dark atmosphere.

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I would as well, but then again, a Vargulf would be pretty cool to fight. I really hope undead make it into the game at some point. Could have Crypt Horrors as the monster like Rat Ogres. And dire wolves as the special, perhaps they’re really fast like gutter runners but grab you and pull you into the horde like pack masters. Grave Guards as the elites. There’s lot of cool stuff they can do with undead.

Then again, I’m hoping the FS statement, “Something appears to have taken a liking to the castle and our heroes have to once again visit the castle to learn more about what’s happening” is just fancy talk for Geneviève Dieudonné is there, go recruit her :stuck_out_tongue:

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Sure. Either undead boss would be a great addition. I actually posted the idea of a mini campaign following a vampire that seeks to acquire some sort of object to use in a ritual or whatever. The idea that the skaven or chaos are also interested could result in some interesting combat situations - more so if this vampire has a few undead minions to throw at either party.

I could easily see Fatshark re-using some current enemies. Norscan Fanatic could easily be re-skinned as an undead with perhaps slower attacks or something. A whole faction I cannot quite see as that would be a ton of work but having a few anomalies and an undead boss (% skaven/ % chaos wouldn’t matter much) could work well imo. Maybe an undead rat ogre could be neat to come across before the boss. Have it attack the 5 just as much as the skaven/chaos. In fighting would be interesting to see.

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I haven’t played V1, but I love dark areas. Holding a torch adds an extra challenge, and the atmosphere is great. I have seen that, into the dungeon, there are also some traps… honestly I would like to see more of them. I think that the difficoulty should come from enemies… but also from the map!

As an alternative, since we already have torches in Blightreaper, we could have LANTERNS. They would be hung on the belt, so you could use your weapon while “emit light”, but if you are hit too many times (or maybe also if you dodge too much) the flame will become less intense and it will not emit light for a little time.

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As I said dark areas are fine depending on how they are implemented.

Hunger in the Dark you have a cart that will continually move away from you if you are near. This can be counterintuitive if you need to leave the cart at all or hold a location but the light source (which isn’t that great) is apparently elusive. I would love if there was even a single torch that you can pick up around the first stop in the dark portion of the map.

Blightreaper I think is fine. My only gripe is when you toss a torch on the ground the light can be heavily effected as to where it lands. I feel like if the light emission is just a bit higher it would be better. Acquiring 2 torches rather early on is really nice and bringing 2 along rather then the 1 has a great advantage.

Lanterns would require a lot more work to something that could be improved upon such as having the light emitter be a little higher so the light doesn’t get all wonky when the torch is on the ground. It would be nice to come across torches/braziers/sconces that you can light up as you progress through a level. Having natural lighting as well would be good and Drachenfels being a dark castle infused with magic could provide such things.

Idk… I just feel like how darkness is currently handled it could be better and the majority of those who dislike the mechanic may tolerate it a bit more.

Traps or drop off paths could definitely be interesting to see more of.

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Summoners peak was the worst map in the game. Interesting that they choose these maps over Azgaraz. They better make significant changes to summoners peak otherwise it’ll be another bogenhafen

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As this is being treated as a “revisit” including a new story-line unlike Back to Ubersreik the devs can indeed change Summoner’s Peak. I understand that the defense based objective wasn’t enjoyed by a lot of people on top of which the map lacking full tomes/grims.

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Even so, I like having shifting paths, it adds variety even if it isn’t much. I always find it neat.

And the maze in Garden of Morr is cool, albeit very brief. And bad news if you get a CS + ambush in there. Multiple paths I’m not against but maybe a bit less ambitious/extensive than Bogenhafen, as there people tend to take the same routes over and over (in part due to book placement).

I still would rather a non-established character vampire gets included in the party than her. Ofc I imagine you would be like:

image

:wink:

This would be neat. You could even have some paintings change as you walk past them, maybe have a character in them that is ‘stalking’ the party.

Would have to move a lot slower too as zombies. I’d love to see a skeleton patrol marching in lockstep like the total war warhammer 2 skeletons though, headed by a necromancer. That’d be great. Could even have a deranged vampire as a boss that is keeping their family as unthinking undead servants Helman Ghorst style.

To improve darkness they could have it that you hold the torch in your off hand if you’re dual wielding or using a shield, as in you at least keep your main hand weapon. It’d give an advantage to those weapon types and mean you aren’t hitting with a wet burning noodle when you pick up a torch. For two handed weapons you could maybe take a sidearm eg a sword or axe - they could have them available to pick up if the torch is taken next to an armoury (but only torch users can pick them up and they drop them with the torch if they unequip it). Basically have a dual wield torch & weapon x pickup instead of a torch alone.

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Ah, at this point I am expecting at least a more overt reference to Genevieve. Drachenfels himself also returns in the End Times as one of Nagash’s Mortarchs (though he’s just called The Nameless, it’s almost certainly ol’ Drachy).

I really wanna see a lot of the key places from the first DLC, but mixing up the long tunnel stretches would be good - I don’t think they’d work that well in VT2, anyway, since they’re pretty narrow.

Dungeons - just give some different paths, but keep 80% of the map in the dark. This was the map that originated it, and it was always one of my favorite maps (even though it was hard as balls) because you really felt like a fantasy adventurer delving into a cursed dungeon. :smiley:

Summoner’s Peak . . . oh boy I hope they rework this one. For those who don’t know, you have to destroy three portals by turning off their cooling system. It begins overheating, and Skaven slaves try to throw buckets of water on it. On Cata in Vt1, a single bucket would practically reset all your progress, which made it very tedious. Not challenging so much as a pain in the ass. It was a cool idea, I gotta admit. Just not fun on higher difficulties.

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Again I’m not advocating for an Undead/Vampire Faction but rather instead have 1 boss and perhaps a generic reskinned enemy minion or so. Coming across such enemies should be the main thing going on as opposed to still killing Skaven/Chaos.

As for the torch, besides increasing the radius merely having it light up better when it’s on the ground is fine with me.

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Storms, Banner-Bois, Ubgor Charges and knockback from Assassin leaps could easily cause a wipe just by knocking people through the holes on the floor at Summoners Peak would be intensely frustrating. Similarly with the increase in special spawn, a couple of gunners and a globadier in the Darkened area where you get the Chalice(?) and hold out until the gate opened would be annoying. A BIG rethink of the maps is probably required to stop such high levels of frustration.

I’d like it if a player selected a 1h weapon, they could dual wield the torch in the other hand., or just have a lot more braziers around to light whole areas.

I’m one of those people who adjusts the ambient light to make it easier in the Darkness, and I know it’s cheesy but it’s so frustrating to get left behind the cart fighting things or get downed by something you can’t even see. I KNOW THATS THE WHOLE IDEA but it’s not much fun.

The first time I played Dungeons I thought “Hey this is the EXACT mechanic from Warhammer Quest, that’s cool!” But that wore off pretty quick.

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I have a simple solution to the darkness problem? Just let Geneviève Dieudonné turn everyone into vampires, then you have dark vision. Problem solved

chaos

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I’d love caslmtle drachenfels to be the same map mixed in with new bits, with areas opened up and closed due to the last battle (through it in vt1) . this really is a great map. would actually be great to have it longer.

the dungeons - I know lots of people who enjoyed the idea of the torch on this map but not so many that actually enjoyed having the torch mechanic. it honestly strips the fun out of the run having to worry about the torch and if in a pug there is always someone who grabs the torch that either doesn’t know the level or doesn’t care that they leave everyone else in the dark as they skip off with the torch. this type of in game mechanic just causes arguments.

summoners peaks - with the generators is easily, hands down, the most disliked map in the game. a remake going by the blown up generators and portals would be cool. having to defend the generators again, not so much.

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Imgur

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Better. Just let us actually kill Geneviève Dieudonné and be done with her.

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DISAPOINT

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