Xd, Understandable have a nice day.
Jokes aside it’s just what it looks like to me when I was in Stockholm. Maybe I just don’t understand the culture at all
Do you need reminded that you said:
or that you said:
And even:
You may not have intended to over generalize and paint the entire community as the problem, but that’s exactly what you did.
So, where exactly did I lie? I’m not trying to intentionally deceive anyone, I’m quoting your exact words back to you and telling you how they come across. I’ve even conceded multiple times that it may not be your intent, but it’s what you said.
Intent is important, but it doesn’t override the other party’s interpretation of your words.
It’s very plausible because the last thing they said is that they aren’t working on it and it’s not a priority. Considering they haven’t mentioned anything else regarding it, the status quo since that statement is that it’s in a cancelled state.
The reason I latched onto the word “lies” descends from more or less the point Meatshield is making. Lying or dishonesty or deception or manipulation is a moral failing that is far different than failing to deliver a promised feature, unless of course the failing is because they were lying in the first place. But given that I don’t think they were lying in the first place, I feel like it’s worth calling out. Wanting more communication is a valid position to hold but not because you’re entitled to it because you think they were or are lying to you.
I guess FS had no intent to sell copies of Darktide they may not have otherwise when they stated definitively solo mode was going to be included. You know, like literally every other game in this genre.
It wouldn’t have changed my mind, but thinking it didn’t change anyone’s is naive.
As I said, you’re technically correct from a pedantic and literal point of view. A lie requires the “intent to deceive,” though this is not always a negative thing as you implied as a lie can be used to avoid more harm to someone else, or to surpise someone on their birthday. The only requirement for it to be a lie is that you’re using a statement with the intent to deceive the other party. Malice is irrelevant. Now a “falsehood” is a broad “anything that is untrue.” All lies are falsehoods by definition, but a falsehood doesn’t require the intent to deceive. When the weather reporter says that it’s going to be a bright and beautiful day and a freak storm rolled in, he didn’t lie but his statement is now false. If I said I’d meet you at the bar at 5:30pm and I show up at 6pm, I didn’t lie but my statement was false.
The issue with falsehoods is when the person or party makes no attempt to correct their previous statement. Using Solo Mode, there were two statements, one is a falsehood and the other is operating under new information.
Statement 1:
This is a partial falsehood. Yes we can play private matches, but no we cannot play Darktide solo. This statement is still untrue and therefore a falsehood. They have not changed stances on this point, as far as we know the intent is still “Yes you will,” so it will remain false until corrected or made true.
Statement 2:
This statement was false until October 2023 when they updated it to say “Solo Mode is not a priority.” That statement remains true until it’s changed by the next announcement.
What we’re pushing for is to reduce the number of falsehoods and replace them with true statements as well as getting updates to the true statements that haven’t been addressed in a while. Fatshark can easily tell us “Solo mode is canceled” and remove the falsehood and remove the need for an update to their “not a priority” statment. But they haven’t done that, for whatever reason that may be, which is why people are frustrated. It’s not just about solo mode, it’s that Fatshark operates with a very cloak and dagger style where they won’t say anything at all until it’s days before the update (sometimes day, singular) at most a week or two iirc. Like I said, all I care about is solo mode so the other aspects of FS comms I’m not the best representative for.
I’m not trying to score a pedantic point. The argument others have made is that the criticism aimed at FS can be unnecessarily personal or aggressive, and that terms like “lies” are inappropriate in this context. The fact that you seem to recognize this yet still defend the use of that language illustrates the exact conduct that’s being called out.
The communication strategy FS adopted has essentially eliminated further incidents like the solo mode one. They’re no longer putting out falsehoods because ATP they only talk about features that have a certain level of finalization, e.g. QA’d and in the patch. This, obviously, does not redress things that have already passed but they are clearly aware of and are responding to a certain line of criticism via behavioral changes.
To be clear, I understand where you’re coming from and it’s frustrating to have a feature that you were highly anticipating binned. But we’re 3 years from it being deprioritized and nearly 3 years from it being zero’d out and no longer worked on. Creating reasons to stay frustrated with FS over such a long period of time is not what I’d call a useful expenditure of one’s time. Being annoying about it their mentions for actual years doesn’t seem to have brought about any of the changes you want. If solo mode is the only thing keeping you engaged with the game, then giving yourself permission to step away and invest your time in something that actually brings you enjoyment might be the healthier move.
Notably they did this in the laziest way possible.
Solo Mode wouldn’t be a problem if, in the weeks up to the launch, they said something to the effect of ‘alright we have bad news, final testing has revealed some significant problems with Solo Mode and while we will continue to develop it so it’s the right kind of experience we want it to be it will not meet our earlier deadlines’. People would’ve been mad but they were already mad about everything else going on with the game’s launch.
But doing that would’ve taken actual effort, and lord knows asking any of the seven executives responsible for PR and Marketing to actually do work is impossible (seriously why are there so many of you and none of you do anything while the game straight up doesn’t have a dedicated CM for months).
Fatshark can avoid lying to its players while still putting out comms. They’ve just chosen the lazier option of never saying anything ever.
No, they don’t.
-EDIT- Okay, apparently the do. I stand corrected.
You continue to miss the point that “lies” and “falsehoods” are being treated interchangeably. I used “lies” I meant “falsehoods” and explained why. So no, I’m not “illustrating the exact conduct being called out.”
Additionally, you’re using ad hominem (admittedly not a very hostile one) to try and undermine my argument. What I do in my free time is, quite frankly, none of your business and is completely irrelevant to the conversation. But since you want to touch on that, I’ll just say that less than 1% of my free time is spent thinking about Darktide and it’s lack of Solo Mode and the company’s poor communication policies. I spend significantly more time chatting with my friends on Discord, and spending time with my wife and our dogs than I do here. So, I’m good, thanks.
ok but you have an umbreon picture everything you say is wrong
#CheckmateLibs
Damn! What if I said we have a border collie we named Soren?
ummm… “People have been asking for a Solo Mode to be added for years, and it’s still not in game”
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Ya know, it feels like Darktide will now have a consistent type of updates every year. 4 major additions: 1 with new content (mostly gets forgotten and dies off quickly); 2 with dlc classes and one focusing on balance and QoL stuff.
We’ll see if I’m correct on that assessment but if it’s true then that means every year we can look forward to an actual Solo Mode being added in the updates like Bound By Duty.
i forgot who said it but someone came up with the quote that says “gamers are good at knowing what the problems are, but not what the solutions are”
both “don’t nerf stuff!” and “nerf stuff!” people have the same problem: weapon X is op. they feel like they have to use weapon X or they don’t have what they need to address what the game throws at them
however they both come up with different solutions. one wants to nerf the weapon so it’s not the one solution to everything anymore. the other wants it to not be nerfed because they feel the game isn’t fun without having a solution to everything
in reality neither of them actually make the game better, the devs need to actually balance weapons and enemies properly so all weapons have a reason to be used. this involves a little bit of pleasing group A (some things will inevitably need to be nerfed a little) but also please group B (they’ll have fun because a good balance concept will make every weapon feel capable and strong)
At least it’s not Vaporeon
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Well, I could be wrong, but it feels like you fell into the trap that the “don’t nerf” crowd does when looking at the “nerf” crowd. The “nerf” crowd don’t want “only nerfs,” they want “nerf over performers, buff underperformers.” But the “don’t nerf” crowd tends to villainize it as “you only want to nerf fun/op things,” and tend to have the thought of “Nerfs are always bad, and they should buff everything up to the fun/OP thing.”
Other than that you’re 100% right that both groups want to have fun and recognize that something needs to change.
Vaporeon is my favorite of the original 3 Eeveelutions though, a strong and bulky water type is always nice to have on the team. But that damn copypasta turned “I like Vaporeon because it’s a strong water type” into “I’m a degenerate!” Lol
The issue is that in your example, Group A wants exactly that, but Group B will be megapissed because apparently buffing weapons to a balanced state is not enough for them, because they’re blind to these changes
Look at the buffs done to Ogryn Charge, it’s a really good ability right now after the buffs but you’ll see 0 people from Group B in that dev blog praising Fatshark for it. Why? because it wasn’t buffed to Taunt’s level
Apply this to nearly everything buffed, and you’ll understand the issue. You can buff 5 weapons to a balanced state, but if you dare nerf 1 super outliers into a balanced state? REVIEW BOMBED by Group B players while never aknowledging the other 5 weapons being buffed