Do you think adding dynamic events like HD2 is a good idea

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
41

lmao
this games update history is an embarrassing mess, no idea why you would portray this as a positive thing. The launch product is 99% of why anyone plays this tide game, the updates are “it’s ok I guess” at best, “this ruins the game for me” at worst.
What you actually said was that the people who made this game could easily do a reactive event system. You’re absolutely out of your mind if you think the totality of people who made Darktide (made it, not “updated it 4 times in the past 3 years”) are still working on it. It’s straight up clueless on the same level as “why don’t they make new classes isntead of blogposts?”, those are simply not the same devs, the teams get shuffled around and a new project is the main focus dev wise.

PS: The most highly appraised post-release development was just cannibalizing pre-release code. The talent tree skills were mostly in the code in the form of unfinished classes. The blogposts acknowledge this and directly state they “scavenged” those. The dev team that is currently on Darktide would be incapable of actually coding these talents, as is evidenced by how the Ogryn rework added no new mechanics other than the dodge push which they might’ve yoinked from VT2. Temper your expectations buddy. We have the skeleton crew on Darktide, they can’t figure this kind of stuff out.

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42

You continue to demonstrate that you don’t have any understanding of software development with these posts. And your continued purposeful misrepresentation of what I’ve clearly stated about the team working on the game post-launch reveals your whole game.

But that aside, player counts and review score are going up, and that’s not because the updates (eg. Auric, new penance system, new weapons systems, new weapons, new maps) ranged from just “ok” to “game-ruining.” They’ve been improving the game since launch, and the proof is in the pudding.

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43

Yap away like a dog that just got kicked, you can’t argue against what I just said. You ignored it because it’s true. They themselves said they scavenged pre-release code, the code was in the source on release. Almost all of the old leaked “new class” talents have been used in the new talent trees, and almost all the other talents are just simple stat changes.

Mortis trials is the extent of the “cool new systems” they can implement and it’s literally just 10 static buffs randomly selected for you from a pool mostly consisting of reskinned class talents, and some UI dressup to make it seem less random, while static spawns happen.
The current event, the most novel and high effort one they’ve made, is just a reskinned scab gunner with broken AI

Also, you keep bringing up playercounts like it means jackshit. Gambling websites have a pretty high player count. I dont care

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44

Here’s the decompiled code from 12/01/2022:

I’m at work so I haven’t looked through this thoroughly, but I sure don’t see all the blitzes, abilities and keystones in here.

But you know all about this stuff, right? Maybe you can find it. I mean you won’t be able to hand wave away the mountain of other work required to make the talent trees a reality, but knock yourself out.

45

You serious right now man? People found all this stuff on release

Some changed a little bit, gunlugger and some others is almost 1:1 all the datamined stuff copypasted into the new tree format

The talent trees are just what they had left from before they had to rush the game through the door, from the other promised classes. They figured they can’t actually flesh the classes out (which was the original plan, hence the 1 class per quarter promise) and hackjobbed the talent trees together with what they had instead

Also there were more of these than what this reddit post points out. I’m not gonna go find it but there were many other things in the datamines at the time, which you can probably still find on the official darktide disc with the right keywords such as “wyrdvane” which is what one of the psyker talent sets was called internally. I’m not gonna bother though, digging through all this stuff is a pain

46

It’s clearly not everything and it’s clearly not all in the code, the latter of which was your claim.

Y’know the guy you’ve been wanting to do great things outside of FS worked on the talent trees, right? It was the last thing he helped deliver before he left.

47

I’ve been theorizing that the way the talent update was handled was WHY he left. I don’t really care though if he wanted it implemented this way then he made a mistake

48

lol great theory!

I have zero information so I have no theories on why he left.

Edit: but here’s what Mats himself said about the class rework:

Finishing up this run with leading the Class rework team and seeing the positive reception our work is getting is wonderful. The release sees the completion of the entire gameplay loop I wanted to build with Darktide. Watching the players dissect, tinker and explore all the builds and the way they interplay is eating up most of my time. It is bittersweet and strange to not be part of it moving forward.

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49

Thanks for letting me know about that

50

there were the immolation grenades during the closed alpha (strict access) of darktide as primary main grenades, then they changed to the stun grenades later in the beta

so yes lot of scrapped stuff

i also remember some modder being able to use krak grenades in the training area, even way before the talent tree system

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51

that would be cool but unlikely because they never tried to do something similar and for how it is built the game it is hard. maybe some level design where sometimes you can take different routes depending by the rng, just like it was a bit in chaos wastes iirc, diversifying the same map. which if i’m not wrong, technically it was their thing to do for DT but it got scrapped i think (?)

or alternatively but also very unlikely, giving map tool and let people create custom maps, i doubt it is any harder to create path navmeshes for enemies, bots etc. just unlikely because prob gw and fs would never allow this anyway, which is unfortunate because otherwise there would be much replayability

they could also improve ai in general making it more dynamic or adding more mechanics to diversify the run. with the “parkour” i think they did a slight good job with maps, especially with fake drop downs, even tho if those are not intended, they should be intended as level design because good, the ability to go back in some part of the maps where normally it is not meant to be possible. i think it’s nice those things for map knowledge

52

Can I just say that in my opinion, this is a Darktide issue, and it is a problem because Darktide’s maps are uninteresting and poorly designed.

Take any map from Vermintide 2 and compare.

Every map in Vermintide 2 has interesting things to look at, from critters (rats and birds) running around to simply going off the beaten path and playing around with the dam on that one map, praying to regain HP on that dwarven map, the Skittergate boss fight (my personal favorite map), Sofia fight, blowing up the Trolls, and so on.

Darktide has no interesting maps, while Vermintide 2’s maps do enough environmental storytelling on their own that you don’t need to know the overarching plot to understand what’s going on.

To me Darktide’s maps feels like Fatshark ran out of time and had to create numerous maps on short notice to produce something.

Nothing ever happens on Atoma.

Everything is static.

There are no corpse trees or piles of bodies to convey a story, as on the Vermintide 2 maps.

While I enjoy Darktide, it has never (for me) done a good job of establishing the illusion that I am on an adventure on Atoma because the maps feel too much like video game levels and do not provide the same immersive experience as Vermintide 2.

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53

plenty unique bosses in vt2 also, but yes the maps are very well made and i personally like the color scheme. in dt beside the twins, it’s just scab captains xd and for some reasons they wont release the unused boss tox ogryn

also in vt2, there are lot easter eggs/secrets in the map that’s possible to find, for example, you can listen to a secret melody ost, in engines of war if you jump following the rhythm of squeaking wooden plank in a very specific part of the map

even vt1 had very nice maps worth to play it just for that

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54

Some of the things there are not really low effort stuff…

55

Everything in development takes more effort than what any end result makes clear.

But what I’ve described above in my off the cuff pitch (which is where my head is at: implementation of the underlying system, not cranking out new modifiers for the system to use), would require less effort than Mortis Trials or Havoc. And I feel pretty confident saying that because almost all the work I described above needs to happen outside of the game itself and mostly by a single team (backend).

56

I dunno - What you described would require a lot of counting and keeping track of numbers.

Alternatively, they could announce event, make up the results, and move directly to consequences. Nobody’s going to check FS’s figures: We’ll be busy arguing about the paucity of the reward, or about how the penalty is “objectively bad game design.”

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57

They already do this though. It’s not clear if they track which missions a player is in at a given time, but I expect they do. And if so, we’re talking about writing some database queries. If not, the front- and backend will need a bit more logging. Still not a big lift.

Exactly. It’s all smoke and mirrors. But I like (and build) systems, so I geeked out on that in this thread.

58

If you want to go by the what Ddkiller said, you’re just wrong.
The very second idea he has is Ork looting parties, that alone requires Fatshark to make an entire new faction for this game, and that alone would take way more effort than Havoc or Mortis.

Havoc is just you running same exact missions, on the same exact maps, doing the same exact objectives you’ve been doing before since the launch of this game. Only thing they did was originally reuse old events or modifiers. Moebian 21st, floor vomit is just Burgle goo, cranial parasite is mutated horrors and the pus hardened skin is just a reused modifier from Auric Maelstrom which gives enemies DR and stagger resistance.

And only recently they made “new” modifiers which are again just Damage Reduction (orange) Stagger immunity (red) and then healer enemies (purple, the only new and unique one). All of which just make the damage sponge enemies even more damage spongy.

And for Mortis Trials the biggest “effort” that took was the 2 (yay) whole maps, which are just reusing map assets from the Carnival and then Chasm Terminus. Layout might be different, but the assets and models? Not at all.
There is no new enemies at all either, and there is only 1 new objective which is just boils down to “capture the point”, which is just you standing inside a blue rectangle until a timer fills up.

And many of the skills for Mortis are just skills that are direct rip offs from the trees. Like Standing Proud which is just renamed Won’t Give In from the ogryn skilltree, and Lock and Unload which is just Reloaded and Ready but with better stats. Or Versatile Assassin which is just Agile Engagement but reworded from the Veteran.
Even most of the “new” weapons we have gotten aren’t actually new.
The great swords, shock mauls and bolt pistol have existed in the game files since the BETA of this game, and they were datamined like day 1.
Only ogryn has gotten new unique weapons, but that is entirely because it is ogryn. It requires unique assets, meaning they have to put actual elbow grease into it.

You’re expecting the people whose last 2 gamemodes are just half-baked meme-modes made out of either reused or modified pre-existing content, to make something with actual depth in it.
It’s just not happening.

You want to see actual effort? Chaos Wastes.
Darktide is just the redheaded stepchild of the 'Tide games, and it is plain obvious for everyone to see.

59

I don’t. I explained what I’d imagine and how I think they could do it pretty well earlier in this thread. This is a topic on the general concept of a dynamic event system.

And your assessment of Havoc & Mortis does not in any way reflect the actual amount of work that went into them (which was a lot).

60

You’re assuming computers are good at that sort of thing.
(Please don’t make me use a /s tag.)