No but is not the point
Wrong because different blessings give different effects, hypothetically +75% power may not help me achieve anything meaningful but + 100% stagger instead might, or just simply would suit my playstle better.
Being locked form having this freedom is what makes people complain and loose interest in the game.
Well let’s be precise:
So yeah, I agree that I was probably unfairly mixing the two there (since the main thing I mean is the first one, but “players say they want maxed stuff” mostly refers to the second).
I don’t even know what you’re talking about with that.
The way I’ve defined max is a lot like how a current “maxed” item is for it to be orange, and you rerolled the perk you liked least.
In the new system you get more control: it’s orange, and you rerolled/replaced the blessing/perks. (Plus the resulting item is likely considerably higher on the attributes, because dumping 50k ordos gets you ten different grey items, so it’s actually dramatically easier to get a good base item to buy at the shop than it is right now, so on average the attributes of weapons players use will be higher than the current average, where players have reported using ~333 attribute items just because they ended up with a great combo of T2+ blessings (and currently that’s more than enough for Damnation; a ~333 Bull Butcher with +cleave and +dmg blessing is going to be dominant even though the attributes fall a good distance short of max – mostly because the actual impact of those attributes is fairly light).)
Yes, I see. If it’s deliberate, you are trolling us, if it’s not, well, you are rehashing the same argument that many of us find lacking to begin with, but were willing to engage. EOD, as far as I’m concerned.
Well I’m generally okay with DRG progression, but I do feel it loses a lot. I mean I love DRG it’s a fantastic game and reasonably deep overall, but compared with Darktide the lack of weapon depth and progression are probably the main two reasons I only invested ~160 hours into DRG but 320+ for DT. There are goals to keep pushing for in DT, but very little other than cosmetics in DRG, and that’s not nearly as compelling.
Did you even read the part I quoted? Because it literally didn’t make sense, “…your definition is a way to introduce the limitations of the current system…” It literally doesn’t make sense what you’re saying there. How would the game introduce the limits of the current system when it’s the current system (so you can’t introduce those same elements, because they’re already part of the current system)?
Why are people acting like this? Please just be rational. When someone says what you said didn’t make sense, probably you should at least reread it and make sure it formed a coherent thought!
I’m exactly the other way around. 150 hours in darktide, 350 hours in deep rock. To be fair that’s more because of the procedural levels, but the way the progression system is easy to use and modify actively makes me want to play the game and try new things, which I cant do in darktide almost at all.
The guy who wrote the article, is an idiot (like most gaming journalists).
The system does not need to be and should not be ripped out.
Aside from removing a huge amount of potential content, it would also require rebalancing of every single item in the game, which might be more work than just making a good crafting system from scrap.
Even the exact system described in the OP would be better than no customization, as long as they just remove perk/blessing locks.
Removing the locks should take no time and would resolve the issue that most people have with the system suggested in the OP.
Further improvements (like modifier upgrades and getting tier 4 blessings) could still be implemented later.
Itemization could easily be fixed, if FS would just do it.
And it could probably be done by the time (+1 week) they intended to release the mess, described the OP.
Unless all of their code is a complete mess, they should be able to repurpose or salvage most of what they have so far, and make a solid crafting system from it.
They would not even need to change any of the store or emperors gift related things. Would probably be less work overall.
And this would result in a much better game, than if the entire gear customization was just removed completely.
VT1’s crafting system consisted of:
Forge:
A shrine that was added 2 months after release. Had 3 functions:
Contracts were added a year after release.
VT1 items has set stats that increased slightly as you went up in rarity.
Weapons did not have perks/properties and had up to 3 traits/blessings. The numbers on the traits were variable.
Number of traits increased by rarity from white - 0, green - 1, blue - 2 , orange - 3
Red items were had max values on their 3 traits and had unique combinations of traits and values that orange items cannot roll.
In my opinion both Vermintide 2 and Darktide regressed heavily from how relatively friendly Vermintide 1’s item systems.
Man, just imagine if they did this when there were still players… Oh well…
I’d definitely agree in terms of ease of use.
It wouldn’t provide items with as much character/uniqueness though, since there wouldn’t be limits on what you can reroll.
And it’s probably not worth mentioning that the traits themselves in V1 weren’t that great design-wise (and were improved in V2, but then weirdly weren’t good balance-wise.)
The article does make some very good points, especially about how player hostile it is where if you want to engage with it more it pretty much tries to monopolise your time.
Maybe it doesn’t need to be ripped out completely, but it needs to address it’s fundamental design issues with the layers of RNG and how disconnected it is from everything else in the game.
The announced changes are a good start, but it doesn’t address what a gaping 7+ dial slot machine with arbitary lockout ‘mechanics’ it is.
The uniqueness is in the design and use of the weapons themselves, not that 1% stat difference. Or rather the design and use of the weapon when it’s at full ability. Subpar is a horrible definition of “unique”.
Another more recent example is WWZ. It has a progression system, but no crafting, and no RNG at all as far as I can remember. I think it’s been successful (just released a major new content patch), although it’s primarily sold through the Epic store which doesn’t seem to have an equivalent to steam charts. WWZ is an interesting example because it incorporates melee combat a fair bit – not as much as the Tide games, but much more than L4D.
The issue with this and the proposed system is that you’re still not getting either even after 400 or so hours.
Let me grind for 100 or so hours and then open up the itemisation so I can get maxed items, or build new builds. This sytem fundamentally does not allow you to do that.
When it comes to how we asses all feedback and then push design changes forward, we don’t serve people based on what they want, we serve people based on what they need.
You just needed to scroll a few lines.
I posted this quote and the original topic
I was fine without character levels too. Oh, how far Fatshark have strayed from the emperor.
Can you explain what is so interesting in being locked out of content for who knows how many hundreds of hours?
Hello yes, I’m sure a few people at the office play World of Warcraft, it’s a pretty big game. Ask them how Shadowlands, a reviled expansion that launched with numerous garbage systems in place that robbed players of agency went. Then have those same people take an objective look at this proposed crafting system, with perk and blessing locks in place, on top of the completely randomly generated statlines.
Thats like saying: „someone made some very good points to demolish an entire house“, when in reality their only problem is, that the door doesn‘t open.
How about you just put in a functioning door?
How did the guy make good ponts, if all the issues with the crafting system could easily be solved if the devs wanted to (and were allowed to)?
To go by your analogy, it isn’t the door just won’t open. What we have here, with itemisation as a supposedly core pillar of the game’s fundamental systems is a creaking, constantly and randomly shifting complicated mess of scaffolding (highlighing its incompleteness) that is more likely to fall and crush you than to really support the game. They could have gone with a simple pillar or maybe some nice vaulting or buttresses that complements the true pillars or foundations of the game, the core gameplay. But they didn’t. And what they’re doing with this patch is adding a few more struts and duct tape to the scaffolding without really changing its fundamental design.
Your changes are good, but they aren’t what’s being done, is it? Fatshark is absolutely adamant they are keeping their fundamental design to screw us out of items and if that’s the case, I’d rather they just remove the whole thing.
That’s the point the article was trying to make, about how obtuse, how random, how much of a waste of time and how the game was designed to deliberately waste your time with this RNGfest of an itemisation system and how none of the proposed changes by Fatshark really address any of it.