Psykers are currently the ones with the worst feats available to define their role in a party. Psykers are not bad, they excel really well in a few areas and these should be represented in their choice of feats.
Psyker Current Roles:
CC
Horde control
Destroying armored units in cover (Scabs/Dreg and similar ranged).
Secondary Roles:
Specialist Sniping with Brain Bursting
What the Psyker really lacks, is not more killing power, it does just fine doing what it does with its staffs, what the Psyker lacks is a talent tree which support this role.
Feats:
Tier 1: Warp Absorption - Reworked
While wielding a staff or force sword - gain x% toughness on a primary/secondary attack hit can trigger every y seconds
Tier 2: Psykinetic’s Wrath - Changed
Gain between 10% and 25% damage with Force Weapons based on your current peril.
Wrack and Ruin - Reworked
Staff and Force Sword attacks have a x% chance to apply Soulblaze on hit (max 10 stacks).
Tier 3: Psychic Communion - Changed
Whenever you kill an enemy with a Force Weapon have an 8% chance to gain a Warp Charge, kills made by allies in coherency has a 4% chance to grant you a Warp Charge.
Psykinetic Aura - Reworked
Increases the chance to 20% for Battle Meditation to quell when you kill a target in coherency.
Tier 4
No changes necessary.
Tier 5 Warp Battery - Changed
Increases maximum Warp Charges stack to 6 also increases duration to 1min.
Kinetic Overload - reworked
Upon gaining a warp charge that would exceed your maximum charges, gain x% damage to all attacks for y seconds,
Tier 6 Quicken - Removed and replaced by Kinetic Mastery
Kinetic Mastery
Staff attacks are enhanced.
Purgatus Staff’s now has x% chance to apply Soulblaze.
Trauma Staff’s maximum Area of Effect is increased & it’s charge time is reduced by x%
Surge Staff’s affected targets is increased by x - y depending on level of charge, the duration of the stun is increased by z seconds.
Voidstrike’s can now penetrate armoured targets and does increased damage to armoured targets.
Mmm, yes. Some of it, may be overtuned, but I feel like this is the direction the Psyker needs to go since we’re no longer the ones that can take care of elites/specials. So we need to get away from the whole feats that are centered around a skill that rarely sees a usage.
I played Psyker at lv 30 for a while now, struggling to optimize him, make him work effectively on Malice+, and still have fun.
Yesterday I bit the bullet and started leveling a Preacher, and oh my god what a breath of fresh air it was, having more than 2 decent feats, a good ability, good passives, and access to braced autoguns and the like.
Psyker needs a rework so badly but the devs have a lot more urgent things to do, like implement content that should have been in at launch. Probably won’t touch Psyker again until he’s reworked lmao
Well, it’s not that Psyker is bad, he’s actually extremely good in competent hands, but he is lacking in feats that actually gives him choices to improve what he does well… He’s only a back up specialist sniper so, his feats shouldn’t revolve around it as many of them currently… do.
I mean, if everything they’ve ever said about Psyker and the class description is a bold faced lie… Yeah they might as well give us talents that actually work around CC and staves, instead of the current talent tree that is some horrible aborted mess and indeed relies on a skill FatShark have decided to make completely worthless.
As for Psyker not being bad… I don’t know. I feel like in competent hands, people would do far better with other classes. They really are absurdly better at stuff than Psyker is. His only niche comes from an incredibly boring staff, which is Surge. People do run purge, but that just makes them a worse zealot flamer. It works, but it’s hardly ideal.
What would be ideal would be actually having a functional talent tree, that perhaps made you choose between being good at CC, or being the actual damage-dealing glass cannon the class is marketed as. If we’re just going to be a CC-bot, I also fail to understand the laughable health and toughness combo.
Voidstrike staff => budget Sharpshooter
Surge staff => ultimate spam CC bot
Purge staff => budget Preacher
Trauma staff => a weird CC/AOE damage hybrid that can be strong but needs to vent Peril every 2 casts
You always have BrainBurst as an option, but since it kinda sucks, if your staff can do the job then you’re gonna use the staff.
Yeah we need talents that actually do something. And/or the staves need to be much better. The actual DPS and Time To Kill on the voidstrike is… not very good. It’s a good feeling staff, certainly at 3 and below (though even at three you begin noticing how even fully charged it super struggles unless you headshot), but any higher and you start to notice how pitiful the DPS is. Trauma staff is just… eh. I’ve seen it used kind of OKish in a team that was lacking a bit in control, to stagger crushers and bulwarks etc, but the peril cost is absurd, it has wonky aiming, low range, and again the damage is far too low.
Voidstrike is indeed… Terribad… It’s generally just a glorified spread everything everywhere and so is Trauma, which is why most of us shy away from it…
Surge Staff → The ultimate scab and dreg gunner killers (not the specials, altho it do kill them quite well). The CC is nice… Shouldn’t spam it on Poxwalkers and melee tho, LMB is super strong on those and you can really save your team by ridding an entire room of Scab and Dreg Gunners (or at the very least bring them out of cover).
Purge Staff → Not as much damage as Preacher no, but it has a much higher uptime than Preacher and ultimately. It doesn’t really need to do the same damage as it already kills anything that enters the fire stream, so it’s a misconception that a Preacher does it better they do it both equally well honestly, preacher kills faster, but has lower uptime, Psyker kills a bit slower, but has a higher uptime. I’d rather have a Zealot on a bolter murdering elites and specials, than I’d have them on Flamers… Seems like such a waste of a slot when Zealots already murder hordes with melee…
That’s of course just my opinion, but I do think people sell the Psyker short… I do think most people are stuck in the “It’s a special/elite killer” when that’s not the case and hasn’t been since CBT - doesn’t help that there’s a lot of really bad Psykers out there that refuse to play to its strengths…
There are no other classes that can CC like a Psyker can, there’s no other classes that can kill stuff behind cover (not even Ogryn’s nade can kill stuff in cover which is… hilarious) - I suppose that Plasma counts too now, but I mean… You don’t really see those being used.
Veterans are basically just glorified Special/Elite/Ranged Killer with backup on Horde killing
Zealots is a glorified Melee horde characters… That’s what they’re good at and they can backup special/elites killing.
Ogryn’s are just… A class of bad that seriously needs a rethink.
Psykers are glorified horde killers at range, they can do that really well and if you don’t want to do that, you can CC everything to oblivion and kill all Scabs in 1 instant charge and 2 instant charges for Dregs even if they’re in cover (and that is actually super powerful on Heresy/Damnation when half a room is scab/dreg shooters).
But whereas both Veterans and Zealots gets stuff that compliments their role… Psykers do not and that should sort of… change.
I agree. Having Choice in terms of playstyle is paramount. Being shoehorned into pure cc regardless of talents picked and weapon loadout just feels bad. Especially since there are staves that suck at cc and the only melee Force weapon does as well, which they would never be viable if cc was the “defined role”.
Ideally I’d like for Fatshark to deliver on the promise and turn BB into an effective elite killing tool. After that they should modify the talent tree and the weapon arsenal to where you have a choice to further specialize into cc or more damage. I am abosultely against defining classes to the point, where they literally only exist through one playstyle especially if that is cc.
I mean BB is a simple fix:
Make it deal damage throughout the duration of its cast time. That way even if someone else gets the kill you did something and not waste either time nor peril.
Generate Warp Stacks upon Peril generated (required amount up to debate). That way using Force weapons in general works towards the passive and not against it.
These two are essential, but the following is also necessary imo:
3) Have BB damage scale with enemy mass. The exact percentage is of course up for debate (balancing variable), but it would make the ability feel consistent across difficulties and not like a non-factor.
These changes would naturally require extensive talent rework - among others psycich communion, which due to the above would no longer serve any purpose.
Personally I’d also change the weapon arsenal of the class. One Melee Force weapon just doesn’t cut it and we clearly lack a staff that is specialised for long distance single target threats and one with decent armor damage. So far there is just not much build variety without these.
Surge Staff → 300% damage to flak armor ;). This is why you can instant fire a secondary attack and Scab fall over. It is extremely good at dealing with armor even specials can be 2shot by instant charges (which I love to do). LMB is for everything else.
We do lack our other Force Weapon, namely the 2H Force Sword which, at least, was shown as a horde version of the Force Sword…
Ah, yeah well… Most weapons don’t really do well with Carapace…
Force Sword/Eviscerator/Chainsaw works/Power Sword (?)/Combat Knife (if you weak spot hit)
Boltgun/Plasma Gun/Ogryn Nade Weapons…
Mmm… There’s probably a few more I’m forgetting about that actually do well… Most weapons don’t like Carapace unless it’s disabled in some way (Stumm nades, Surge, Staggered)
This not really a reply but more an expression of my overall impression with weapon distribution, though I’d like to share it anyway.
I think that the overinsistence on roles dictated by classes in general is hurting the game in terms of build variety more than anything else. Just because a class has an option in their weapon arsenal for a specific threat type does not make them the specialist suddenly. Dictating specialisation/roles further through extremly limited weapon selection, only serves to cement the viability of certain weapons as there just don’t exist many options for complementary loadouts. Specialisation should occur in the class and talent design. Sure weapons need to fit the class aesthically, but I do not for a second believe that this has to or should come at the cost of having options.
That is why you have various subclasses in the Tide series… We didn’t launch with any, so go figure…
The builds are mainly centered around weapons and how you… perk and bless them, not so much about your feats really though each build do tend to have some feats that are better than others… As an example the Battle Mage Sienna has a DoT build which relies on the Beam Staff… Extremely effective at killing Elites, Specials and Bosses, not so much for anyhting else, but she also has a Horde Build which focuses on Stagger & Horde control and it uses… slightly different feats (but not a lot)…
You rarely have classes that can do… Everything, what’s the point in having classes then… Just have one type and that’s it.
If we are talking about Vermintide already. For waystalker alone you have a multitude of weapon options alone that radically change your playstyle within the same subclass. I can play full on special focus with longbow, pure horde dps with swift bow or bosskiller with hagbane it’s my choice and have a melee weapon to complement each. Darktide doesn’t even approach the same stratosphere as of now.
I just want BB to have a defined use. Is it suppose to kill specials or elites? Both? If it’s suppose to target specials and be bad against elites with carapace/high hp, then it should not be able to target trash mobs. Specials often hide in crowds which is what makes them dangerous. Maybe some psysense for specials. The damage can stay the way it is but it needs to fully cast a second sooner.
If it’s for elite killing, then it needs to do waaay more damage and it doesn’t need any special targeting. The mass idea helps but I don’t think it’s enough. I do like damage throughout duration for both, that should be there. Maybe these two could even be talents, with the third talent being an existing one, like increasing Warp Charge count to 6.
Warp Charges are a joke. 3% damage per charge??? Wtf? If it’s going to be such a small number can it buff more things? Like reduce damage taken, increase move speed and toughness regen speed, improving melee cleave; I don’t want just more damage, I think that’s lame and it will always leave Psyker in the shadow of another class or vise versa. The way they’re gained is bogus too as you mentioned. I would like it to be gained by quelling, I think that would be an interesting way to define the Psyker’s weapons and give that distinction between relying on BB for charges vs force weapons.
If the above were implemented, I’d like a talent to increase the duration of Warp Charges, I feel that would be a must. Since the Psyker can take non-force weapons, it would be nice to have a build that defines that decision by allowing you to use BB sparingly and enjoy the buffs as a true hybrid role where you dip into things everyone excels at. The force arsenal can then embrace certain roles fully with that soft backbone of being capable at a little bit of everything.
I would like a talent for force swords that while using its channel attack you do not take chip damage to hp from melee coupled with a small bonus to toughness regen, maybe warp charge percentage applies to toughness gain when meleeing.
Those are build defying talents, coupled with other suggestions here.
That’s a general problem with Darktide tho, all classes are sort of shoehorned into one type they do well… I think that was the intention honestly and that’s fine with me…
I think builds in Darktide is going to be more, how you do said role and then subclasses will expand on the roles a class can fill.
Make a level perks that you can pick one of that give brain burst extra abilities.
Interesting ones would ones that give you utility.
BB goes off as well as the utility effect
My ideas are
fire lightings that stun in a AOE
Warp fire explosion that’s like a fire nade but smaller and shorter than the fire nade the bomber throws.
Small aoe explosion that throws the enemy to the ground rag dolling them. Works on ogryns.
When you BB a second BB channelled on the same target channels 3 times as fast and gives 50% less WP. (Most boring but probability the best tbh)
Mind control (two options.)
1 You channel brain burst on a target and while channeling they frenzy and attack everything around them and friendly fire down stuff and when your BB goes off they die or continue to frenzie for 3 more seconds if they live.
2 You channel BB on a target and once it goes off they are frenzied for 5-10 seconds and at the end BB goes off.
I truly believe my suggestions would resolve your concerns pertaining BB. Having its cast 1s shorter is irrelevant, because that still leaves the option for someone killing the target before you and you having wasted time and peril. If you make it deal its damage continously throughout the cast you completely eliminate the issue.
Pertaining to damage scaling with mass - I envision it somewhat like this:
Crusher: BB deals 33% of enemy max health as damage.
And then you have different percentage values depending on the enemy and these can be used to balance the strength of the ability and still make it feel consistent across difficulties.
I agree warp charges are a joke in terms of effect, but I’d first like to fix the way we gain/keep them. Keeping them up through quelling is not something I’d like as that only further cements a passive playstyle. Having them generated after generating a certain percentage of peril means you could be using your staff and at the same time work towards keeping up the passive with no need to unorganically pop a head.
I know that Psyker can use other non-force weapons, but I’d rather they trash those entirely and expand massively on the arsenal of force weapons. Not only do I find it immensly boring to play a space wizard with a normal axe or gun, but there is also no reason gameplay-wise why you should. In every scenario you’d end being a worse veteran, which just isn’t ideal to say the least.
Thank you for sincerely responding. I appreciate the feedback.
Definetly sounds interesting. Nonetheless it would require a severe amount of creative input from the dev team, which unfortunately doubt they currently have the headspace for. Still this would diversify playstyle without doubt.