This bug afflicts only Repeater Gun (both Krub and Saltz’s one), the other ranged weapons (Brace of Pistols included) haven’t this problem (so we can’t say it’s a gunpowder weapons’ feature).
Dead bodies are still capable to block the bullets. Both during the falling animation and when they lie at the ground.
This is a bug that heavily penalizes Repeater Gun. Imagine this scenario: there are more enemies in a row. It’s Rep Gun time… but more or less half of the bullets will be wasted against dead bodies.
A simple example to explain better the situation:
Modded realm, recruit difficulty (just to make the test easier, but this works on every difficulty) and two Stormvermins in a row: Rep Gun vs Brace of Pistols.
Both the weapons can one-bodyshot a SV but they can’t penetrate him.
Brace of Pistols:
- first shot: it kills the first SV but not the second one, since the weapon can’t penetrate them;
- second shot (fired while the first SV’s dead body is falling): the bullet goes through the dead body and kills the second SV.
- first shot: same above;
- second shot: it’s stopped by the dead body.
Another example? Kill the first SV and wait until he reaches the ground. Then try to shoot to the second SV through the first one (for example aiming his feet)… with Brace of Pistols you can kill him. With Rep Gun, nope.
important: for the test I used SV just because they are easy to kill but hard to penetrate… but the bug works with every enemy you can’t penetrate (his mass > your weapon’s cleave). Armor tier doesn’t matter.
Obviously if Rep Gun can penetrate “X” enemy while he’s alive… it can penetrate him also while dead (but this will subtract Rep Gun’s cleave… with the other weapons, cleave isn’t reduced).
Bullets getting caught in dead bodies sounds like game design to me.
Question is now why it’s not consistent.
According to you the Brace of pistols ignore the dead bodies, while the Repeater doesn’t.
Maybe the mass of the enemies change when they die?
Out of curiosity did you notice that with other weapons, too?
I know the Charged Throwing Axe doesn’t care.
(well it cleaves through hell anyways)
Mass of dead enemies are supposed to be zero (iirc), but dead armor, super armor, and monster armor still has some effect on weapon attacks (ex, swinging at a dead rat and being blocked by a dead rat ogre arm).
Dead armored enemies can block attacks from melee weapons, bosses too.
There is some gimmickry going on.
@FatsharkJulia why this mechanics afflicts only Rep Gun? I mean, I can understand that “arrows-weapons” work in another way… But Brace of Pistols can go through dead bodies. Moreover this happens also with not-armoured dead enemies.
This problem happens with NOT-armoured dead bodies too… And, anyway, why an armoured enemy should stop Rep Gun but not Brace of Pistols?
Who ever tagged this as ‘not-a-bug’, this is still something we need some clarity over.
I did some testing (a lot of SV were harmed during this, with more violation of their corpses) and there is a lot of inconsistency.
I got through all ranged weapons, here’s the list, will obviously leave out almost all area of effect attacks.
Repeater Handgun: doesn’t pierce.
Handgun: doesn’t pierce, no matter if zoomed in or not.
Longbow: does pierce on all shots (crit doesn’t matter, will come back to that later).
Blunderbuss doesn’t pierce.
Crossbow: does pierce.
Grudgeraker: doesn’t pierce.
Drakefire Pistols: do pierce on light shot.
Handgun: same as Kruber.
Throwing Axes: pierces on charged throw as well as on crit light throws.
Longbow: does pierce on all shots.
Shortbow: pierces on charged shot as well as on crit light shots.
Hagbane: pierces on all shots, albeit the light won’t penetrate the living SV’s armour, thus will do no damage; crit light attacks will do damage.
Volley Crossbow: does pierce on all shots.
Brace of Pistols: does pierce with all shots.
Crossbow: same as Bardin.
Volley Crossbow: does pierce on all shots.
Repeater Pistol: doesn’t pierce.
Beam Staff: doesn’t pierce.
Bolt Staff: Does pierce on all shots!, even light and charged 1.
Conflagration Staff: does pierce on light attack.
Fireball Staff: does pierce on light attack (i know, it’s the same characteristics as Conflag), but charged doesn’t.
I highlighted all the interesting bits, with the exception of the Handgun.
All it needs to stop a Handgun bullet right now is a single Marauder (or Bulwark) on legend.
For me there is no argument that it needs it’s pierce characteristics back, way earlier than any possible change to the weird behaviour of the other weapons.
God dammit you beat me to it.
Great work on the testing!
Piercing values of ranged weapons is part of the values we tweak when working with the inter-weapon balance of the weapons. At different points of time there have been different takes on which kind of weapon/attack pierces what enemies, dependent on which state the enemy is in and by how much (Monsters being generally the thing that stops pretty much every kind of projectile/swing).
I do see the confusion that could arise in regards to the behaviour of ranged weapons and how they interact with corpses. Feedback is noted.
Thanks for the heads up on this.
Kasper - Game Designer
Thanks for answer… but, if I can be totally honest, choose arbitrarily what weapons can penetrate dead bodies and what can’t, it seems to me cryptic as mechanics… and also a little bit random, since we can’t foresee the exact dead animation.
Thank you for your answer!
I hope you also took in the note about the normal Handgun.
Does the corpse age make a difference? I ask because I think the ragdoll physics setting either makes the corpses unmovable if disabled where with option turned on you can rearrange your collection & pile them differently.
Also I think this is client side, but am not sure, would need to test. I have been surprised how accuratly the corpses bug out sometimes where the whole party can see the stuck in the wall rat. Though that is the phase where everyone has got the physics on, only after coming to rest it disables if the setting is off, afaik.
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