Darktides horrendous loot system by the numbers or Why we should demand some promises

Sorry, english is not my first language and i am bad at commas even in my native language :smiley:

No worries. Commas are usually used every 3 digits for numbers. So 1,000 or 1,000,000.

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I think that is the American way. in Europe it is reversed, so one hundred thousand would be 100.000 while one point thirty seven would be 1,37.

I am sure the commas are wrong in the text though

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I have a suggestion:
Probably make it refresh every successful mission. And also make it so that each difficulty yield different kind of weapon color.
For eg. T1 is white, T2 is green, T3 is blue, T4 is orange and T5 probably red aka the perfect weapon. There is no need for the shop to spawn all orange or red. At least spawn 1 to 3 red equipment after finishing T5 run and the rest can be orange, blue, green and gray. In other words, the cap of the weapon color in the shop is decided by which difficulty you successfully run. T5 is really hard at least for me. At least this is gonna make people populate damnation a bit to try to get perfect weapon which is still a RNG for the Perks and Blessing. The Perks and Blessing can be tailored later in the crafting with the current implementation of crafting. This will also make people feel rewarded by finishing damnation difficulty since the only thing that people currently wanted from damnation is the portrait. People will also grind more in the heresy level after lvl 30 to get a good equipment to prepare for damnation instead speedrunning T1, T2 and T3. I know this cant eliminate the speedrunning lower difficulty but at least it can lower it. It’s a plus plus. What do you guys think about it?

There you go, folks.

Much appreciated. Thank you. Would be great to understand what is the intention with making the game so incredibly grindy and RNG-based, and why this direction is seemingly being double-down on with the new perk re-roll system locking the other perk, making you even more reliant on armory RNG.

So I can answer this.

In general, Fatshark tries to stray away from P2W mechanics. We’ve mentioned this in previous press releases with V2 “loot comes from your gameplay, not your wallet”. Which is why we try to do premium cosmetics vs “buy lootbox, buy level progression, buy boosts, etc.”

However, we have sold weapons and careers with expansion DLC/character DLC in the past (such as Back to Ubersreik, Winds of Magic, and new careers that have cross-over weapons that can be shared between classes), so that’s not necessarily off the table. And in those terms, we generally try not to make those weapons OP by design (SotT not withstanding, we realized she was way more powerful than she needed to be, in the end). We are examining what we have players pay for very carefully and are particularly cautious right now, especially after the feedback we’ve gotten regarding the shop these past couple of weeks.

At least seeing the feedback now, I don’t see us going down that path any time soon, if at all (nor had we plans to), as Hedge mentioned.

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Thank you for the answer Aqshy!

I really do appreciate you guys commenting on this, as it is assuring.
I can fully understand classes and DLC, including weapons, being paid to unlock, as long as they are not paid to obtain in the game.

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There are plans to make it have less friction. I dont know what those plans are and cant offer a timeline though.

So in short: Have fun checking the shop once every hour for the next 6-12 months.
Let’s hope you have more players by left than desirable weapons in the RNG shop.

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Yeah, I get the frustration, and maybe this will get me in hot water, and I know people won’t like this answer, but a lot of the times when Hedge and I don’t reply to threads, it’s not because we don’t want to, it’s because we have our own NDAs to attend to, and sometimes we can’t give information until given the go ahead. Every CM runs across this at some point in their career. Part of the job. For now, larger topics we’re generally trying to address when Hedge and I have 100% solid answers on them (see: me sticking my foot in my mouth when the date on console news was supposed to arrive).

So ofc, we’re happy to address this one as we can! We’re still chasing up larger issues this forum has spoken about regarding how things are intended to work, what is changing, etc; we’re just making sure our ducks are in a row before going out with that else, well, this is how we get roasted with accusations of “false promises” when things change. :S

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Can we deduce from this that the armory timer issue is something you are also not allowed to comment on due to the NDA? Seeing as this has been a huge complaint from players, but remains one of the few points neither you nor Hedge have commented on.

Do these larger issues include the horrendous gaslighting regarding the promised amount of weapons? Because owning up to false promises instead of “we hear you, here’s 2 more weapons” isn’t exactly going to win back anyone anytime soon.

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No, this isn’t NDA, we’re just waiting on further talks on what’s happening there before going out with it. We’re also generally trying to address the larger issues in larger venues rather than 1:1 in various platforms where things are easier to get taken out of context or misconstrued by accident because it’s not in some official announcement that can be easily referenced.

But to your point, this is an issue Hedge and I are chasing up, we just don’t have info to share right now.

Edit: Grammar. “More easy” > “easier”

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Im quite wondering why there arent more experimental builds being put out regarding these horrendous crashes so many people are getting. Right now, experimental and live build are the same no? Atleast i am not getting any patching due to steam when i change back and forth.
Atleast that worked better in the beta. It felt, that there was progress. Right now, we get the 1liner in the very said thread that there “is progress in the upcoming patch”. No solution, solely “progress”, whatever that means. :frowning:
Im honestly so disappointed by now, even i got already so many hours clocked in, i cant start a round without the thought in the back of just wasting my time.

Cheers
Chris

I’ve asked if we can do more experimental builds actually, but we’ve been pretty heads down working on fixing crashes and other technical issues in the live build as more people are there. Usually we try to keep the variables in experimental builds quite low so we can more easily pinpoint issues we’re looking for there. Once we get the game in a stable spot, I’m happy to push for more experimental builds for a variety of uses.

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This is 100% unacceptable. Have those designers no understanding of the former games and what players appreciated about the systems? I very much appreciate to see some communication happening, but the contained information is soooo disconnected from the feedback given by the community.
There are numerous systems whose only way to salvation is basically abandoning them and it will only get harder the longer it takes.

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A treat would it be if there was a reasonable way to earn it, not just buying a lottery ticket and waiting for it. The whole system is just gambling with extra steps, with the only benefit so far being that it doesn’t cost any money. Yet. Which will come, there is no doubt in my mind.

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The transparency is appreciated, and i can sympathize with you guys not necessarily being able to communicate what you want to answer. Once again, thanks for answering my questions!

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They do. Thes DELIBERATELY made these choices. These choices are no accident, no error, no fault in maths. Hedge clearly stated they were aware of it. They set out to do this, because they follow a plan. This design has a certain aim, and my guess is that said aim is not to our benefit.

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That aim is most likely to increase playtime as much as possible as most metrics show that the more time players invest into games the higher the chance of cosmetics purchase.
Also note that the best equipment isn’t locked behind the highest difficulties. It’s achievable by ANYONE who spends massive amount of time checking the lottery/grinding. This increases the pool of players willing to invest more time, which brings us back to the first point: padding playtime.

Edit: Some digging to prove that this is absolutely intentional:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/zl3rna/comment/j05a2ai/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Assuming a target range of 360-369 and a 25 perk rating:
Psyker: (10/37))(80.8/100)(3.20/100)(1/20))(10.89/100)*100 = 0.0038%
Ogryn: 0.011%
Zealot: 0.0040%
Veteran: 0.0037%

Based on those number to guarantee that you see a specific 360-369 weapon with the right perk that you want without caring about the stat weights you need to spend (this doesn’t mean it can’t show up faster, this is the mean time spend):
Psyker: 26.315hrs or 1097 days.
Ogryn: 9090hrs or 379 days
Zealot: 25000hrs or 1042 days
Veteran: 27027hrs or 1126 days

It gets even more absurd for 380 weapons in which you can forget about it in your lifetime. This is why they’re saying that Hedge is vastly understanding the difficulty, because it is impossible outside of sheer damn luck and an untold amount of Virgin sacrifices to RNGesus.

These are based on 500 recorded weapons over 50 resets in which the following have been tracked:

  • Base Rating
  • Quality
  • Perk Rating
  • Blessing Rating

You can find the whole shazam here: Armoury Spreadsheet - Google SheetsIt also features the statistical insecurity of this - the only one that is incorrect, currently, is the 370-379 range as well… as you know, the current rng past 360 is terribad… It’s the worst offending “F2P” mobile game levels of rng bad…

This game is even worse than most gacha games. I refuse to believe that this isn’t intentional. No dev is THAT bad at math to have overlooked this. This is a deliberate decision.

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If there was an Oversight there it was almost certainly in how several Systems will work together - namely the RNG Shop and Perks/Blessing Tweaking. Because the RNG Shop alone, as frustrating as it might be, is within reason Lottery-wise. Same goes for Perk and Blessing locks and rerolls.
However when you add those Systems together you get RNG Hell.