Darktide vs Space Marine 2

How does a story keep progressing if character progression has maxed and maps are a constant rotation though?

I’d be interested to hear a solution but I don’t really understand why people are so hung up on it. We’re playing the same maps against the same enemies over and over and over…how does story progression fit into that?

Tbh they have done it in ways such as special events and a new map gives some new narrative, so they are delivering some new story. But how far do people want it taken exactly?

Edit: perhaps they have since added more story to the player progression since many long-term players have last levelled up?

You guys are crazy for real, lol. How you are making those conclusions that having more DIVERSE options makes someone a literally nazi wifebeater claiming females are belong to the kitchen.

Yet again, i suppose Baldurs Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Souls series was made by fascists.

When the initial take was about reject theme is restrictive, you can’t be anything despite ugly reject. But that dude accidentaly start bringing topic of STRONG FEMALES, like if anyone was claiming there should be no? Pfff.

Come on, you’re being ridiculous now. No one here believes you have a wife.

you two, should give up the discussion…

you will make this thread close and you won’t get anything from this discussion.

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Still more content than in DT tbh.

Saber Interactive - Space Marine 2 developers - are utilizing their previous developments from World War Z game: swarm mechanics, progression systems etc. And no wonder their melee system is just a bit more complicated than the one from the WWZ as it’s mostly a shooter game.

And Darktide devs are utilizing their developments from their games set in medieval times.

I would say Fatshark had improved their shooter mechanics way better than Saber improved their melee systems.

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Try auric with bots. The difficulty comes from playing with them.

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My Bro feels very much like that about games. He says he finds it difficult to get in to games with pre-made characters. He wants to be a version of himself. He doesnt even like making female characters because it pulls him out of the immersion.

I like both. I loved V2s characters and I kinda miss that in DT, but at the same time, I love making characters that are a version of me, either male or female, or sometimes I make one thats completely removed from who I am.

If I had a hundered lifetimes I would be everything this world has to offer: A theoretical physicist, an astronaut, a long haul truck driver, a dentist, a potter, a painter, a candlestick maker, a bum, a druggie, a gigolo, a pilot, a gardener and on and on and on and on and on…

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I certainly also enjoy games where you play a particular and defined character, but in my case - that is reserved for an immersive single player experience where you can really dive into the mental role playing.

Multiplayer I absolutely prefer to be a ‘fresh slate’ because the involvement of other IRL people kinda breaks that narrative role playing for me and totally changes the tone of the immersion.

The involvement of other people breaks my 4th wall so that’s why I don’t get hung up on lore narrative. I enjoy customising my character so others can see it and things like that though.

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Personal opinion obviously, but last chancers would the novel example I’d use to illustrate life in darktide, even if it seems the rejects have a bit more leeway/freedom of movement.

And by that standard, I’d say DT nailed the human body look fairly well if we discount possible limitations in the graphics engine being the sole reason.

In real life, if you’re running on the bare minimum needed for weeks at the time, nobody looks like a chad or supermodel, ask anyone who’s done a 4+ week SERE variant or just had to maintain high activity for a few weeks to a month while having very little to eat (sub-1k calories, aka on the border of where the body finds it easier to convert muscle and organs to energy rather than fat), let alone over years of that state.
Imo, on that note DT did well on the character design.

Going back to fantasy land and picking at a few points above without wading in entirely, outside of the (very real) disappointment of there not being a coherent story in darktide, I’ll take the soundbites and coms lines in darktide once repeat gameplay becomes a factor.

I mean, i know a lot seemed to like SM2’s story, i can’t help feel like there’s some trolling involved there.
The marines act like emotionally insecure teenagers, with just about zero interesting nuance, and the plot points are bafflingly bad.
You could in fact, correctly point out that these characters act very much like strong male characters.

Plot summary for SM2;

“Oh, i’m so insecure and conflicted. Do i like the ultramarines or my brooding deathwatch existence? If only i had someone to tell me what to think? Thank you for guiding me chap-pai character that seems to have a suspicious amount of information on me! Oh, this relationsh… redeployment isn’t turning out how i thought it would, but I’m going to be outwardly gruff and nonsensical and just carry that weight so it can cause some drama and pitfalls, until we’ve all shared our feelings and then we’ll all get along, even though we all have actual grievances now, because i’m a strong male character! Then when we’ve all bonded without any consequences for previous actions, we go to the princess pala… glorious battleground and we win the day in ways that will change the phrase mary sue into chaddy sue, yes indeed!”

Bad (and/or generic) writing is bad writing, try not to attribute the quality of the material to what gender the character is.
Nagging (female) characters in DT need to go has been said repeatedly, but that chaplain, SGT, Captain, and SM2 Titus get a pass? And how is Rannick not first on the list over anyone else in DT on that criteria, as he’s obviously written as airlock fodder?
Calgar in SM2 acting like he’s in a TTS episode? Sure, seems legit.

After all that, this is essentially the big showdown in SM2;

https://youtu.be/tum66sLmaR8?t=115

Honestly, i wouldn’t mind if SM3 was based around a squad from a newly created female space marines chapter called “wings of freedom”, their iconography being a waterfall, specializing in shock assaults from hovertampons.

If the writing is good, the characters acted even remotely sane or relatable, and the world looked like SM2 I’d simply applaud it for getting the mood right and being better than SM2, despite the tampons with bucket seats and side-mounted lascannons flying around in the background while crushing and gently absorbing heretics.

If your enjoyment or context applied to a product is based solely on it being a male or female, while interacting as chemically castrated, essentially asexual, emotionally scrubbed and indoctrinated super-soldiers, i would argue you’re focusing on the wrong points.

Also, nothing wrong with linking SM2 or even enjoying the story or combat.
I obviously don’t, but that is an opinion/preference and we all have them, it is however no better on many points than the absolute shovelware in other media or even games, it just comes in decent wrapping paper if you happen to like 40k.
And that can be enough too, it is however not the messiah no matter what your political or social slant is, it is at best a slightly naughty boy (or girl).

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All of that was amazing :joy:

I never knew I needed hovertampons but now they are LORE!

And yes agree re the story of SM2. I enjoyed it but in the way I enjoy a big action blockbuster movie. I had low/no expectation of story so was happy to indulge in pure spectacle.

I was just so sad that the most fun bit - the Tyranids, are all over too quickly and it moves to the boring chaos forces of boredom. It became quite tedious for me after chaos showed up.

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Yea, that would be nice, but it does feel a little like franchise-building currently rather than moving towards self-contained stories or settings.

I’d personally be perfectly ok with a faceless protagonist going forward, but I doubt that’ll happen now.

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Absolutely!

In my dream scenario, FS would release a DT expansion or spin-off where we play as a regular SM squad Vs Orks (green tide?!) and the 'nids. I’m not sure I could even handle how excited I would be if they did that.

The engine is there and now works wonderfully…just need some new enemy models/animations, alien jungle a d bunker maps, a sprinkle of balancing… and hey presto, a freaking explosion of electric adrenaline ensues!

I’d not want it to replace DT but a dedicated team to handle it independently.

Could still have classes, including a psycher etc. a terminator instead of an Ogryn. Choose or invent chapter colours.

Sorry I’m daydreaming again, but one can dream!


Correction: this is your personal opinion, not facts.

My character Wahid has a backstory that includes growing up on Tallarn, joining the army, and eventually being drafted into the Inquisition for dereliction of duty (fleeing the battle following Colonel Al’Ter-Ay’s defeat at the Battle of the Big Toof River), as well as an ongoing storyline.

Before becoming Wahid, I played Quorin the Bounty Hunter, a hired gun who joins the Inquisition for money and dies on a mission in Atoma.

You don’t need “RPG features/systems” in a game to create an original character; the only limitation is your own imagination.


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Yes?

  • Do story characters and NPC’s comment on that?
  • Enemies shouting “reee talaranian desert rat”?
  • Any dialogues on that?
  • Can other players see that somehow?
  • Does your character receive some +5% more ammo on desert maps?

Nothing can spotlight your character bio except your explanation on the forum, that’s why i said it’s soulless. Headcanon and imagination - ok, but game’s world and story doesn’t care, so it’s a dead and static thing, it’s non existant in DT world. An cause of it my opinion it wasn’t a good trade to move from V2 formula.

Now if the character creation was like top tier, on Dragons Dogma 2 level - then i would say it’s damn impressive, even without hard presence in the game’s world. Something that can represent the whole spectre of Warhammer badass characters.

On top of that, you can’t rolepelay, if there is no MTX droped you need, lol. And some MTX doesn’t fit female body properly for example. And for some personalities even cosmetics will not change them, like female psyker (savant i remember correctly) is an ex-enforcer. So having voicelines doesn’t help in that case.

Idk the melee is kinda growing on me! I do love Darktide though. It’s probably one of my all time favorite games

SM2 story is fine, not the greatest one, the only meme thing was the ammount of “brother” word in the end.

Being a Space Marine is more tragic than being a normal human.

They will never have a family, all of them will end up being dead in just another war. Since they were converted to SM in their childhood and moved through the hypnoinduction procedures, not all of them even remember their parents (some does).

Regular guardsman atleast has a shady chance to end up on some nice paradise or agricultural planet, having a new life. Imperium treats millitarum veterans pretty well.

But for SM’s their chapter, traditions, brotherhood is the only family, culture and heritage they ever will have and know.

So is it really strange Titus wasn’t happy he must to proof himself again, after he was kinda kicked out of his family? But he did what he must. Cause he’s a soldier and a tool. All space marines know that they are a living weapon and a tool.

So no, he wasn’t insecure, because he wasn’t crying “booo hoo why should I, you kicked me out, evil ultramarines!”.

Concerns and opinions was shared, yes, to show that space marines are not mindless drones, but individuals. Tho after such short conversation they switch to their job, like professional soldiers.

Daaamn, bite used to be believable. But I will comment on that nonetheless.

Space Marines all being males has its key thematical value - they are a clear cultural and historical reference - knight-monks chapters. Like hospitaller, templar or teutonic knights.

They aren’t just sci-fi supersoldiers. Aswell there is a theme of male comradership and brotherhood bounds.

So, adding female space marines will kill all that fleur and make them generic sci-fi thing.

Female space marines is heresy.

Male Sisters of Battle(?), lol, Brothers of Battle, whatever is a heresy.

Female orks is heresy.

Just like orc couples in the Middle Earth.

If someone can’t enjoy, relate to or understand a faction then it is what it is.

Like you don’t ask a metal musician to make a hip-hop song, so you could enjoy his music.

Or you don’t ask a horror movie director to add funny circus music cause you are to scared of horror movies.


No video game will emulate this experience. They’re simply too limited.

You need to play a tabletop game, yet the closest thing you seem to be interested in is a CRPG.

CRPGs include everything you’re looking for, but I’ve always felt that CRPGs’ main flaw is that they limit your character’s place in the game world too much.

My main fantasy RPG character is Arghain, a human bard with no fighting skills, powers, magical talents, superior intelligence, or other extraordinary abilities.

He’s just a normal person who plays music in pubs to eat and sleep, but the problem with a lot of RPG games is that they tend to elevate your character to the status of chosen one or godhood, whereas Arghain is merely a regular guy who became involved in an adventure party by accident/lack of choice.

He is always intended to be a non-combat character who never gains any magical abilities or weapon proficencies.

He’s simply a regular person who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and is trying to make the best of the situation.

Just because games like Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, Pillar of Eternity, Divinity, Pathfinder, and others do not provide me with the means to properly play him (pacifist), does not mean I can’t keep him out of battle if I choose to.

Imagination is your limitation.

If we will rely heavily on imagination, why do we even need to create a character, let it be silent and masked hero.

And why do we need a video game even, where is that borderline when the game should create immersion, not the player.

But OK, let’s be realistic here. Not on the full scale, sure. But as I said, it both on the basic appearance level and presence in the world.

The presence aspect is weaker in DT than in V2.

What about appearance?

Game was released 2 years ago, but zero steps was made to expand a character creation options.

It was asked on this forum and on steam subforum many times since release.

You can’t even change eyebrows separately from the haircut, uh.

No augmentations.

No toxic hair colors hive clans would use.

But still we have only alcoholics faces, still mostly weird haircuts styles, like weird in a bad term, not obscurish cool.

Barely cool drips, only mtx’s wich aren’t even lore accurate.

And then some people says “ooh freedom”.

We have a freedom to play as the most not cool and not iconic Warhammer characters.

Give an option to create something cool, charismatic and or attractive like this:

And barely anyone would choose those options we have currently.







I definitely agree with you on this.

I and @Khorne_Dawg have had lengthy discussions about the flaws of character customization, such as my desire for real black eyeliner as an option for pulling off the Kohl look rather than the strange eyelienr tattoo, and our rejects are also overly muscular in comparison to real-world soldiers from the WW2 era.




Which is also strange because Owlcat’s Rogue Trader has it, and Darktide has some augmentations, but they are only available in the MTX store and are underwhelming.




Although I have purchased some items for my Tallarn look, I would go so far as to say that the MTX store suffers from a severe lack of quality control.

Aside from Darktide’s lack of a dye system, the MTX items simply lack the level of detail or care required to justify their price model.

Also, the Tallarn outfit we got was wrong, with the wrong pants and no Kiffeh. The kiffeh was sold with the winter set, indicating that Fatshark, or the Chinese sweatshop that manufactures the things for the MTX store, is uncaring with how the sets/units should look.

For a standard Veteran Tallarn look, you’ll need the backpack from the new penances, the white kiffeh from the winter outfits, the Tallarn chest piece from the botched Tallarn set, and the pants from the Krieg set.

That’s three separate MTX set items only to recreate a lore-accurate Tallarn.

No Quality Control at all!


I appreciate you sharing concept images from Rogue Trader.

I really enjoy the game!

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